I keep losing the triple pane view, and don't know how to get it back.

[Another nobody]

I've been using Agent for years. I'm now using Agent 2.0. Often when
I start up the program, it starts in a single pane view that I can
switch back and forth between "Group", "Message List" and "Message"
view. It allways takes me a long time through trial and error to get
back to the triple pane view. I'm not sure what I do to get it back
but it has to do with the minimize, maximize buttons in the upper
right corner of each box. Am I the only one having this problem and
am I the only one who doesn't know how I get it back? I've been stuck
on this single pane view for about ten minutes and still can't get
back to triple. What do I need to do?

[jo]

Post by Another nobody
What do I need to do?

Z

[Donald McDaniel]

Post by Another nobody
I've been using Agent for years. I'm now using Agent 2.0. Often when
I start up the program, it starts in a single pane view that I can
switch back and forth between "Group", "Message List" and "Message"
view. It allways takes me a long time through trial and error to get
back to the triple pane view. I'm not sure what I do to get it back
but it has to do with the minimize, maximize buttons in the upper
right corner of each box. Am I the only one having this problem and
am I the only one who doesn't know how I get it back? I've been stuck
on this single pane view for about ten minutes and still can't get
back to triple. What do I need to do?

At the top of the list of headers, to the far-right of the "Date"
column, there is a control. Click (or double-click) on this control,
and the display will go back and forth between the single-pane view
and the three-pane view. You have to look very carefully for this
control, as it is quite small.

I have never had your problem. However, for a long time, I did not
know how to get out of the "Compose" window and back to the three-pane
view temporarily.

Donald L McDaniel
Please reply to the original thread
and keep the conversation in order.
=======================================================

[The Horny Goat]

On Sat, 12 Feb 2005 07:06:44 -0800, Donald McDaniel

Post by Donald McDaniel

Post by Another nobody
I've been using Agent for years. I'm now using Agent 2.0. Often when
I start up the program, it starts in a single pane view that I can
switch back and forth between "Group", "Message List" and "Message"
view. It allways takes me a long time through trial and error to get
back to the triple pane view. I'm not sure what I do to get it back
but it has to do with the minimize, maximize buttons in the upper
right corner of each box. Am I the only one having this problem and
am I the only one who doesn't know how I get it back? I've been stuck
on this single pane view for about ten minutes and still can't get
back to triple. What do I need to do?

At the top of the list of headers, to the far-right of the "Date"
column, there is a control. Click (or double-click) on this control,
and the display will go back and forth between the single-pane view
and the three-pane view. You have to look very carefully for this
control, as it is quite small.
I have never had your problem. However, for a long time, I did not
know how to get out of the "Compose" window and back to the three-pane
view temporarily.

The easiest way is just to hit "Z"

[Dav Vandenbroucke]

Post by The Horny Goat
The easiest way is just to hit "Z"

This doesn't always work. Sometimes it just toggles between showing
the tabs at the top of the window and not showing them.


Dav Vandenbroucke
davanden at cox dot net

[Paul Hantom]

Post by Dav Vandenbroucke

Post by The Horny Goat
The easiest way is just to hit "Z"

This doesn't always work. Sometimes it just toggles between showing
the tabs at the top of the window and not showing them.

It always works by definition. You get rid of the three tabs, you have
restored the "three pane" view, literally. The problem you describe
arises when you one has shrunk one or two of the three panes so that
they are virtually non-perceptible. Watch your mouse pointer carefully
and you should find out how to make all panes visible.

[Donald McDaniel]

On Sat, 12 Feb 2005 17:40:09 -0800, Paul Hantom

Post by Paul Hantom

Post by Dav Vandenbroucke

Post by The Horny Goat
The easiest way is just to hit "Z"

This doesn't always work. Sometimes it just toggles between showing
the tabs at the top of the window and not showing them.

It always works by definition. You get rid of the three tabs, you have
restored the "three pane" view, literally. The problem you describe
arises when you one has shrunk one or two of the three panes so that
they are virtually non-perceptible. Watch your mouse pointer carefully
and you should find out how to make all panes visible.

Just found a way to get one or more windows back which seem to have
disappeared: When they are minimized in such a way that they seem to
disappear, an icon is placed in the Notification Area of the Windows
TaskBar. Just click on this icon, and the "disappeared" window will
reappear.
Donald L McDaniel
Please reply to the original thread
and keep the conversation in order.
=======================================================

[Dav Vandenbroucke]

On Sat, 12 Feb 2005 17:40:09 -0800, Paul Hantom

Post by Paul Hantom
It always works by definition. You get rid of the three tabs, you have
restored the "three pane" view, literally. The problem you describe
arises when you one has shrunk one or two of the three panes so that
they are virtually non-perceptible. Watch your mouse pointer carefully
and you should find out how to make all panes visible.

It may work by definition, but it doesn't work in practice. I have
never resized the three windows. But sometimes Z does not restore the
panes properly, as I described in my previous message. When I run
into this problem, it remains for the entire session. I have not been
able to identify any action on my part that cause it to happen or
prevent it from happening.


Dav Vandenbroucke
davanden at cox dot net

[Donald McDaniel]

Post by The Horny Goat
On Sat, 12 Feb 2005 07:06:44 -0800, Donald McDaniel

Post by Donald McDaniel

Post by Another nobody
I've been using Agent for years. I'm now using Agent 2.0. Often when
I start up the program, it starts in a single pane view that I can
switch back and forth between "Group", "Message List" and "Message"
view. It allways takes me a long time through trial and error to get
back to the triple pane view. I'm not sure what I do to get it back
but it has to do with the minimize, maximize buttons in the upper
right corner of each box. Am I the only one having this problem and
am I the only one who doesn't know how I get it back? I've been stuck
on this single pane view for about ten minutes and still can't get
back to triple. What do I need to do?

At the top of the list of headers, to the far-right of the "Date"
column, there is a control. Click (or double-click) on this control,
and the display will go back and forth between the single-pane view
and the three-pane view. You have to look very carefully for this
control, as it is quite small.
I have never had your problem. However, for a long time, I did not
know how to get out of the "Compose" window and back to the three-pane
view temporarily.

The easiest way is just to hit "Z"

Thanks muchly for the "Z" key reference. Very handy. Too bad the
Tabs in the single-pane view don't look more like Tabs. By the way,
striking the "Z" key during composition of a post does nothing but
insert a lower-case "Z" into the post (unless "Caps-lock" is turned
on, in which case it inserts a capitalized "z").

There are at least 2 ways to leave the Compose window temporarily:
1) Using to use the standard MDI controls right below the main Agent
controls in the top-right of the screen, then choosing one of the MDI
windows which are cascaded.
2) Clicking "Window" in the main menu, then choosing the window you
want from the list at the bottom of the "Window" sub-menu.

Donald L McDaniel
Please reply to the original thread
and keep the conversation in order.
=======================================================

[Donald McDaniel]

On Sun, 13 Feb 2005 06:51:23 -0800, Donald McDaniel

Post by Donald McDaniel

Post by The Horny Goat
On Sat, 12 Feb 2005 07:06:44 -0800, Donald McDaniel

Post by Donald McDaniel

Post by Another nobody
I've been using Agent for years. I'm now using Agent 2.0. Often when
I start up the program, it starts in a single pane view that I can
switch back and forth between "Group", "Message List" and "Message"
view. It allways takes me a long time through trial and error to get
back to the triple pane view. I'm not sure what I do to get it back
but it has to do with the minimize, maximize buttons in the upper
right corner of each box. Am I the only one having this problem and
am I the only one who doesn't know how I get it back? I've been stuck
on this single pane view for about ten minutes and still can't get
back to triple. What do I need to do?

At the top of the list of headers, to the far-right of the "Date"
column, there is a control. Click (or double-click) on this control,
and the display will go back and forth between the single-pane view
and the three-pane view. You have to look very carefully for this
control, as it is quite small.
I have never had your problem. However, for a long time, I did not
know how to get out of the "Compose" window and back to the three-pane
view temporarily.

The easiest way is just to hit "Z"

Thanks muchly for the "Z" key reference. Very handy. Too bad the
Tabs in the single-pane view don't look more like Tabs. By the way,
striking the "Z" key during composition of a post does nothing but
insert a lower-case "Z" into the post (unless "Caps-lock" is turned
on, in which case it inserts a capitalized "z").
1) Using to use the standard MDI controls right below the main Agent
controls in the top-right of the screen, then choosing one of the MDI
windows which are cascaded.
2) Clicking "Window" in the main menu, then choosing the window you
want from the list at the bottom of the "Window" sub-menu.

By the way, there are times when there is no window listed in the
"Window" submenu or control available which will get one back to the
Browser window from a "Compose" window. This is unfortunate at best,
and seems to me to be a glaring omission in Agent 2.0's code. Perhaps
I am missing something. If I am, I hope someone lets me know.

This is strange! Just a minute ago, I checked, and the only window
listed at the bottom of the "Window" sub-menu was the reference to the
current "Compose" window. I just checked, and the reference to the
Browser window is now shown. Weird!!!" This may have been a result
of my experimentation on the MDI controls (I minimized the "Compose"
window, then restored it. I assure you, when I minimized this
"Compose window, the only window shown was this "Compose" window in a
cascaded form.)

Just experimented again, and the Browser window has now disappeared
again. I do believe the UI still needs a little work. Don't get me
wrong: I am not dissatisfied with Agent 2.0. It will take much more
than that for me to change my Usenet client.

Donald L McDaniel
Please reply to the original thread
and keep the conversation in order.
=======================================================

[Donald McDaniel]

On Sun, 13 Feb 2005 07:31:36 -0800, Donald McDaniel

Post by Donald McDaniel
On Sun, 13 Feb 2005 06:51:23 -0800, Donald McDaniel

Post by Donald McDaniel

Post by The Horny Goat
On Sat, 12 Feb 2005 07:06:44 -0800, Donald McDaniel

Post by Donald McDaniel

Post by Another nobody
I've been using Agent for years. I'm now using Agent 2.0. Often when
I start up the program, it starts in a single pane view that I can
switch back and forth between "Group", "Message List" and "Message"
view. It allways takes me a long time through trial and error to get
back to the triple pane view. I'm not sure what I do to get it back
but it has to do with the minimize, maximize buttons in the upper
right corner of each box. Am I the only one having this problem and
am I the only one who doesn't know how I get it back? I've been stuck
on this single pane view for about ten minutes and still can't get
back to triple. What do I need to do?

At the top of the list of headers, to the far-right of the "Date"
column, there is a control. Click (or double-click) on this control,
and the display will go back and forth between the single-pane view
and the three-pane view. You have to look very carefully for this
control, as it is quite small.
I have never had your problem. However, for a long time, I did not
know how to get out of the "Compose" window and back to the three-pane
view temporarily.

The easiest way is just to hit "Z"

Thanks muchly for the "Z" key reference. Very handy. Too bad the
Tabs in the single-pane view don't look more like Tabs. By the way,
striking the "Z" key during composition of a post does nothing but
insert a lower-case "Z" into the post (unless "Caps-lock" is turned
on, in which case it inserts a capitalized "z").
1) Using to use the standard MDI controls right below the main Agent
controls in the top-right of the screen, then choosing one of the MDI
windows which are cascaded.
2) Clicking "Window" in the main menu, then choosing the window you
want from the list at the bottom of the "Window" sub-menu.

By the way, there are times when there is no window listed in the
"Window" submenu or control available which will get one back to the
Browser window from a "Compose" window. This is unfortunate at best,
and seems to me to be a glaring omission in Agent 2.0's code. Perhaps
I am missing something. If I am, I hope someone lets me know.
This is strange! Just a minute ago, I checked, and the only window
listed at the bottom of the "Window" sub-menu was the reference to the
current "Compose" window. I just checked, and the reference to the
Browser window is now shown. Weird!!!" This may have been a result
of my experimentation on the MDI controls (I minimized the "Compose"
window, then restored it. I assure you, when I minimized this
"Compose window, the only window shown was this "Compose" window in a
cascaded form.)
Just experimented again, and the Browser window has now disappeared
again. I do believe the UI still needs a little work. Don't get me
wrong: I am not dissatisfied with Agent 2.0. It will take much more
than that for me to change my Usenet client.

After all, I stayed with my first wife for over 5 years, while she
committed adultery over and over.

By the way, when I clicked on "Send now" in my last post, the Browser
window seemed to fail to return. In fact, the window did return, but
nothing was displayed in it except the Toolbar. Also, Agent 2.0
failed to strip the signature from the quoted post above as it
normally does.
Donald L McDaniel
Please reply to the original thread
and keep the conversation in order.
=======================================================

[Rom]

Post by Donald McDaniel
Also, Agent 2.0
failed to strip the signature from the quoted post above as it
normally does.

You need to include a signature delimiter "-- " on the line before
your signature to enable capable newsreaders to automagically strip
signatures. A signature delimiter will also enable capable newsreaders
of hiding signatures when reading too. Including a signature without a
signature delimiter will either see the signature not deleted by some
when responding, or requires those responding to manually delete the
signature, or if only highlighting only a portion of text before
hitting reply or followup it won't be there.

In Agent's Options where you define signatures add "-- " on the line
before your signature. That's without quotes, and is dash dash space.

Post by Donald McDaniel
Donald L McDaniel
Please reply to the original thread
and keep the conversation in order.
=======================================================

[/betty/]

On Sun, 13 Feb 2005 07:45:48 -0800, Donald McDaniel used 80 lines to

Post by Donald McDaniel

Post by Donald McDaniel
Just experimented again, and the Browser window has now disappeared
again. I do believe the UI still needs a little work. Don't get me
wrong: I am not dissatisfied with Agent 2.0. It will take much more
than that for me to change my Usenet client.

After all, I stayed with my first wife for over 5 years, while she
committed adultery over and over.

ROFL! That statement would perfectly sum up the attitudes of a lot of
Agent users.

Thank you. Classic Usenet at its finest.

[BillB]

Post by Donald McDaniel
1) Using to use the standard MDI controls right below the main Agent
controls in the top-right of the screen, then choosing one of the MDI
windows which are cascaded.
2) Clicking "Window" in the main menu, then choosing the window you
want from the list at the bottom of the "Window" sub-menu.

I generally use <Control><Tab> to cycle between windows. That and
<Control><Shift><Tab> are equivalent to Rom's <F6> and <Shift><F6>
solution. Use whatever method you find most convenient.

[Donald McDaniel]

Post by BillB

Post by Donald McDaniel
1) Using to use the standard MDI controls right below the main Agent
controls in the top-right of the screen, then choosing one of the MDI
windows which are cascaded.
2) Clicking "Window" in the main menu, then choosing the window you
want from the list at the bottom of the "Window" sub-menu.

I generally use <Control><Tab> to cycle between windows. That and
<Control><Shift><Tab> are equivalent to Rom's <F6> and <Shift><F6>
solution. Use whatever method you find most convenient.

Thats a good solution, too, I guess. However, there are times when
some windows disappear altogether, leaving no apparent way to come
back to them. See my other posts.

Donald L McDaniel
Please reply to the original thread
and keep the conversation in order.
=======================================================

[BillB]

Post by Donald McDaniel
Thats a good solution, too, I guess. However, there are times when
some windows disappear altogether, leaving no apparent way to come
back to them. See my other posts.

Yep, I saw it. I'm inclined to think that it's related to a
Windows problem though. Has the problem ever occurred shortly after
Windows has started, or only after it has been up and running for a
while. A nice feature of Agent is that although it may sometimes
use a tiny bit of the Windows registry, you can copy all of Agent
onto a CD and transport it to another computer and use it without
worrying about the registry or install programs. If you did copy
Agent to another computer (which might or might not require a few
changes, such as to the Groups List, news server host name, login
name and password) I'm guessing that if you tried this, your windows
occasional disappearances might come to an end. Is this something
you could easily try? If not, could you find someone that would be
willing to accept a gift of a CD with a copy or your Agent on it,
removing the registration key from AGENT.INI of course as well as
any unneeded ng databases, and have them let you know how it works
on their computer?

[Nick Spalding]

Donald McDaniel wrote, in

Post by Donald McDaniel

Post by BillB

Post by Donald McDaniel
1) Using to use the standard MDI controls right below the main Agent
controls in the top-right of the screen, then choosing one of the MDI
windows which are cascaded.
2) Clicking "Window" in the main menu, then choosing the window you
want from the list at the bottom of the "Window" sub-menu.

I generally use <Control><Tab> to cycle between windows. That and
<Control><Shift><Tab> are equivalent to Rom's <F6> and <Shift><F6>
solution. Use whatever method you find most convenient.

Thats a good solution, too, I guess. However, there are times when
some windows disappear altogether, leaving no apparent way to come
back to them. See my other posts.

To recover Agent's default 3-pane view:

With Agent not running.
1. Edit agent.ini with word wrap off and delete, or comment out with a
semi-colon, the LastView= line in the [View] section.

2. Delete, or rename, Layout.dat.

Agent will now start up with its default 3 pane view.

[Rom]

Post by Donald McDaniel
However, for a long time, I did not
know how to get out of the "Compose" window and back to the three-pane
view temporarily.

Try F6 and/or Shift+F6 to switch between windows.

I prefer to use WinTabs <http://www.17slon.com/gp/wintabs/>

[Ogden Johnson III]

Post by Another nobody
I've been using Agent for years. I'm now using Agent 2.0. Often when
I start up the program, it starts in a single pane view that I can
switch back and forth between "Group", "Message List" and "Message"
view. It allways takes me a long time through trial and error to get
back to the triple pane view. I'm not sure what I do to get it back
but it has to do with the minimize, maximize buttons in the upper
right corner of each box. Am I the only one having this problem and
am I the only one who doesn't know how I get it back? I've been stuck
on this single pane view for about ten minutes and still can't get
back to triple. What do I need to do?

You do know how to get it back, you say so yourself. " I'm not
sure what I do to get it back but it has to do with the minimize,
maximize buttons in the upper right corner of each box." says
that you understand that those buttons are, indeed, "standard"
Windows minimize/maximize [actually in this case, restore up/down
buttons] which will move you from three-pane view to a "Zoomed"
view of the pane in which you clicked on the button. Another
click, and you're back at the three pane view.

The keyboard toggle for this action is the "Z" key [for zoom if
you can't figure it out.]

When closing Agent, the state of your view, three-panel or one
panel zoom, is remembered, and Agent will be in that view when
you open it again.

[It should be remembered, that one should use a single click, not
a double one, when clicking on that restore up/down button. If
you double click, it restores in one direction then immediately
in the other again, leaving you back where you started. This is
all standard Windoze stuff, which shouldn't be rocket science,
but given Gates' predilections for tinkering, sometimes is.]

[Donald McDaniel]

On Sat, 12 Feb 2005 14:19:35 -0500, Ogden Johnson III

Post by Ogden Johnson III

Post by Another nobody
I've been using Agent for years. I'm now using Agent 2.0. Often when
I start up the program, it starts in a single pane view that I can
switch back and forth between "Group", "Message List" and "Message"
view. It allways takes me a long time through trial and error to get
back to the triple pane view. I'm not sure what I do to get it back
but it has to do with the minimize, maximize buttons in the upper
right corner of each box. Am I the only one having this problem and
am I the only one who doesn't know how I get it back? I've been stuck
on this single pane view for about ten minutes and still can't get
back to triple. What do I need to do?

You do know how to get it back, you say so yourself. " I'm not
sure what I do to get it back but it has to do with the minimize,
maximize buttons in the upper right corner of each box." says
that you understand that those buttons are, indeed, "standard"
Windows minimize/maximize [actually in this case, restore up/down
buttons] which will move you from three-pane view to a "Zoomed"
view of the pane in which you clicked on the button. Another
click, and you're back at the three pane view.
The keyboard toggle for this action is the "Z" key [for zoom if
you can't figure it out.]

This toggle does not work when one is within a Compose window. All it
does then is insert a "z" into the post, unless <Capslock> is toggled
on, in which case it inserts a capitalized "z" into the post

Post by Ogden Johnson III
When closing Agent, the state of your view, three-panel or one
panel zoom, is remembered, and Agent will be in that view when
you open it again.
[It should be remembered, that one should use a single click, not
a double one, when clicking on that restore up/down button. If
you double click, it restores in one direction then immediately
in the other again, leaving you back where you started. This is
all standard Windoze stuff, which shouldn't be rocket science,
but given Gates' predilections for tinkering, sometimes is.]

Unless one has Windows set to recognize double-clicks as
single-clicks, and one is using the Active Desktop with single-click
launch.

Too bad there is no "Zoom" toggle control in the Compose window as
there is in the Browser window.

Donald L McDaniel
Please reply to the original thread
and keep the conversation in order.
=======================================================

[Ogden Johnson III]

Post by Donald McDaniel

Post by Ogden Johnson III
The keyboard toggle for this action is the "Z" key [for zoom if
you can't figure it out.]

This toggle does not work when one is within a Compose window. All it
does then is insert a "z" into the post, unless <Capslock> is toggled
on, in which case it inserts a capitalized "z" into the post

Who, in the deity's name, was talking about the compose window?

OP asked about the three-pane view, i.e., Newsgroups pane,
Message List pane, and Message pane. For the compose window. you
are stuck with the standard Windows Minimize/Restore
Up-Down/Close Window set of icons in the upper right hand corner
below the three that control Agent itself.

[/betty/]

On Sun, 13 Feb 2005 11:43:37 -0500, Ogden Johnson III used 22 lines to

Post by Ogden Johnson III

Post by Donald McDaniel
This toggle does not work when one is within a Compose window. All it
does then is insert a "z" into the post, unless <Capslock> is toggled
on, in which case it inserts a capitalized "z" into the post

Who, in the deity's name, was talking about the compose window?

The bottom posting non trimming one-line interjector who was unable to
punctuate a simple sentence did in:

Message-ID: <***@4ax.com>

[Ogden Johnson III]

Post by /betty/

Post by Ogden Johnson III

Post by Donald McDaniel
This toggle does not work when one is within a Compose window. All it
does then is insert a "z" into the post, unless <Capslock> is toggled
on, in which case it inserts a capitalized "z" into the post

Who, in the deity's name, was talking about the compose window?

The bottom posting non trimming one-line interjector who was unable to

Aha! Thanks /betty/.

Now all I am left to wonder about is why in the hell did Donald
McDaniel choose to reply to my post, which was solely talking
about the three-pane question in reply to the OP's question,
instead of The Horny Goat, who gave him the bum scoop on his,
non-related-to-the-three-pane-question-of-the-OP compose window
question.

[Will this Eternal September©® never end?]

[Donald McDaniel]

On Sun, 13 Feb 2005 15:14:37 -0500, Ogden Johnson III

Post by Ogden Johnson III

Post by /betty/

Post by Ogden Johnson III

Post by Donald McDaniel
This toggle does not work when one is within a Compose window. All it
does then is insert a "z" into the post, unless <Capslock> is toggled
on, in which case it inserts a capitalized "z" into the post

Who, in the deity's name, was talking about the compose window?

The bottom posting non trimming one-line interjector who was unable to

Aha! Thanks /betty/.
Now all I am left to wonder about is why in the hell did Donald
McDaniel choose to reply to my post, which was solely talking
about the three-pane question in reply to the OP's question,
instead of The Horny Goat, who gave him the bum scoop on his,
non-related-to-the-three-pane-question-of-the-OP compose window
question.
[Will this Eternal September©® never end?]

If I have disturbed you, please forgive me. I assumed that a
"Compose" window can be referred to a "single-pane" view, just as a
maximized browser window can be referred to as a "single-pane" view,
as well as can a maximized view of a post be referred to as a
"single-pane" view.

I replied to your post because my experimentation showed me that the
Agent 2.0 navigation keys appear to not always work as defined.
Perhaps I am not using them properly. I admit that I am certainly no
expert in the use of Agent 2.0.

[/betty/]

On Sun, 13 Feb 2005 18:57:14 -0800, Donald McDaniel used 46 lines to

Post by Donald McDaniel
On Sun, 13 Feb 2005 15:14:37 -0500, Ogden Johnson III

Post by Ogden Johnson III
[Will this Eternal September©® never end?]

If I have disturbed you, please forgive me. I assumed that a
"Compose" window can be referred to a "single-pane" view, just as a
maximized browser window can be referred to as a "single-pane" view,
as well as can a maximized view of a post be referred to as a
"single-pane" view.

Not really, if I understand you correctly I'll hereby try and demystify.

First; the Composition window is a strange beast, quite abnormal to both
its native MDI metaphor as well as being non-SDI like behaving.

This amounts to an instant recipe to copious confusion for many people
expecting 'normal' look feel and behaviour, like all their familiar
other apps work.

Trust me, you aren't Robinson Crusoe on this one.

Comp is really a 4th window pane; however... it's not a likeness or a
part of the 3-Panes view that people have referred to here -- which is
actually called the "Browser" window workspace btw.

"Single pane" view simply comprises the zooming of ONE of those 3-panes
in the Browser window workspace, so it IS [directly] related to
3P/Browser but NOT so for the Composition window because it, like its
sister Outbox, are totally separate albeit non 'detachable' from the
Main window container.

Confusing isn't it? :-)

Understandably, you see them as 'single panes' too (which they are,
effectively), hence the confusion.

It might help to straighten it out if I list the 'queer' behaviours of
the Composition (and generally applies to Outbox too) windows, thus:

1. note that Agent the product, and its users normally refer to Comp and
OB as 'windows', not as panes...

2. ...whereas only the 3 "Browser" viewports are called panes, whether
in expanded (zoomed, single) or the more popular (and default) 3-Pane
working view.

3. you cannot integrate them (Comp or OB) as 'another' or one of the 3
panes set, they're always a separate individual viewport.

5. although they are separate (panes), as in [1], they're still only
panes not windows per se, and you can't detach them from the main.

5. you cannot effectively resize them normally and independently, and
have it sticky, for any normal use -- the only practical working way to
have them is as a "full single pane size" maxed view.
ie. Like a 'single-pane' msg Browser window is.


Last; don't confuse the term "Browser" that I've used here with Web
(WWW) Browser -- Agent, like all Usenet News and proper eMail clients,
are 'browsers' in the full and true sense because they facilitate the
separate viewing only (browsing) of content.

The difference is that they also allow the separate editing management
of content as a separate (and powerful, dedicated) process.


Hope that suitably clears the air, or further confuses as the case may
be.

Post by Donald McDaniel
I replied to your post because my experimentation showed me that the
Agent 2.0 navigation keys appear to not always work as defined.
Perhaps I am not using them properly. I admit that I am certainly no
expert in the use of Agent 2.0.

See Help | Index | Accelerators... -- you'll soon become familiar with
the base set of essentials for your predictable navigation needs.

Unfortunately Agent doesn't permit customisation of keys so comfortable
usability can be a serious problem.

[Donald McDaniel]

On Mon, 14 Feb 2005 07:17:40 GMT, /betty/

Post by /betty/
On Sun, 13 Feb 2005 18:57:14 -0800, Donald McDaniel used 46 lines to

Post by Donald McDaniel
On Sun, 13 Feb 2005 15:14:37 -0500, Ogden Johnson III

Post by Ogden Johnson III
[Will this Eternal September©® never end?]

If I have disturbed you, please forgive me. I assumed that a
"Compose" window can be referred to a "single-pane" view, just as a
maximized browser window can be referred to as a "single-pane" view,
as well as can a maximized view of a post be referred to as a
"single-pane" view.

Not really, if I understand you correctly I'll hereby try and demystify.
First; the Composition window is a strange beast, quite abnormal to both
its native MDI metaphor as well as being non-SDI like behaving.
This amounts to an instant recipe to copious confusion for many people
expecting 'normal' look feel and behaviour, like all their familiar
other apps work.
Trust me, you aren't Robinson Crusoe on this one.
Comp is really a 4th window pane; however... it's not a likeness or a
part of the 3-Panes view that people have referred to here -- which is
actually called the "Browser" window workspace btw.
"Single pane" view simply comprises the zooming of ONE of those 3-panes
in the Browser window workspace, so it IS [directly] related to
3P/Browser but NOT so for the Composition window because it, like its
sister Outbox, are totally separate albeit non 'detachable' from the
Main window container.
Confusing isn't it? :-)
Understandably, you see them as 'single panes' too (which they are,
effectively), hence the confusion.
It might help to straighten it out if I list the 'queer' behaviours of
1. note that Agent the product, and its users normally refer to Comp and
OB as 'windows', not as panes...
2. ...whereas only the 3 "Browser" viewports are called panes, whether
in expanded (zoomed, single) or the more popular (and default) 3-Pane
working view.
3. you cannot integrate them (Comp or OB) as 'another' or one of the 3
panes set, they're always a separate individual viewport.
5. although they are separate (panes), as in [1], they're still only
panes not windows per se, and you can't detach them from the main.
5. you cannot effectively resize them normally and independently, and
have it sticky, for any normal use -- the only practical working way to
have them is as a "full single pane size" maxed view.
ie. Like a 'single-pane' msg Browser window is.
Last; don't confuse the term "Browser" that I've used here with Web
(WWW) Browser -- Agent, like all Usenet News and proper eMail clients,
are 'browsers' in the full and true sense because they facilitate the
separate viewing only (browsing) of content.
The difference is that they also allow the separate editing management
of content as a separate (and powerful, dedicated) process.
Hope that suitably clears the air, or further confuses as the case may
be.

Post by Donald McDaniel
I replied to your post because my experimentation showed me that the
Agent 2.0 navigation keys appear to not always work as defined.
Perhaps I am not using them properly. I admit that I am certainly no
expert in the use of Agent 2.0.

See Help | Index | Accelerators... -- you'll soon become familiar with
the base set of essentials for your predictable navigation needs.
Unfortunately Agent doesn't permit customisation of keys so comfortable
usability can be a serious problem.

Thanks, /betty/. While I can't say I'm not still confused, I can say
you gave a very detailed explanation of a very esoteric subject.

I really don't use Agent enough to need accelerator keys, but I will
try to open my head enough to check out your reference to
"Help|Index|Accelerators".

By the way, I have come away from this discussion with a very helpful
key sequence: "Ctrl-Tab". It has shown me a way out of the Compose
window temporarily, which I truly needed, since I sometimes forget
which post I am replying to. I know, I know: I need to lay off the
wine for a while, but it adds a little variety to an otherwise
featureless life out here in the country.

Donald L McDaniel
Please reply to the original thread
and keep the conversation in order.
=======================================================

[/betty/]

On Mon, 14 Feb 2005 07:28:44 -0800, Donald McDaniel used 107 lines to

Post by Donald McDaniel
On Mon, 14 Feb 2005 07:17:40 GMT, /betty/

Post by /betty/
See Help | Index | Accelerators... -- you'll soon become familiar with
the base set of essentials for your predictable navigation needs.

I really don't use Agent enough to need accelerator keys, but I will
try to open my head enough to check out your reference to
"Help|Index|Accelerators".

No problem, ve hav udder vays to make dis critter talk...

Post by Donald McDaniel
By the way, I have come away from this discussion with a very helpful
key sequence: "Ctrl-Tab". It has shown me a way out of the Compose
window temporarily, which I truly needed, since I sometimes forget
which post I am replying to. I know, I know: I need to lay off the
wine for a while, but it adds a little variety to an otherwise
featureless life out here in the country.

OK, I now see that you're not a keyboard person and, that you want a
convenient method to jump back and forth between the Composition window
you may be working in (without closing it), and the Browser workspace.

Easier done that said, Try this:

Agent has an excellent Toolbars editor, where you can virtually roll
your own custom toolbars/buttons for 'commands convenience' applying to
each and every separate one of it's Window workspaces to suit individual
user needs!

It's quick and ever so simple.

Here's something I just did in A2, the version you're using;

From the menus...
- Options | General Prefs ...
- Navigation & Menus | Toolbars ...

1.
- Under 'Window' (left side), choose "Browser" from the drop down.
- Under 'Commands' (right side)| select "Window next window" from
the long deep list of choices.
- click "Add >>" to add a new button to your Browser Tbar.

- click "Apply".

2.

Now do exactly the same routine except for the "Composition Window" in
the drop down, adding the same "Window next window" new button to its
toolbar.

(nb You could add more, or others if you want)

Now one single mouse click on those buttons when in either respective
Window view will flip you to the other without closing your work.

[Donald McDaniel]

On Mon, 14 Feb 2005 17:35:39 GMT, /betty/

Post by /betty/
OK, I now see that you're not a keyboard person and, that you want a
convenient method to jump back and forth between the Composition window
you may be working in (without closing it), and the Browser workspace.
Agent has an excellent Toolbars editor, where you can virtually roll
your own custom toolbars/buttons for 'commands convenience' applying to
each and every separate one of it's Window workspaces to suit individual
user needs!
It's quick and ever so simple.
Here's something I just did in A2, the version you're using;
From the menus...
- Options | General Prefs ...
- Navigation & Menus | Toolbars ...
1.
- Under 'Window' (left side), choose "Browser" from the drop down.
- Under 'Commands' (right side)| select "Window next window" from
the long deep list of choices.
- click "Add >>" to add a new button to your Browser Tbar.
- click "Apply".
2.
Now do exactly the same routine except for the "Composition Window" in
the drop down, adding the same "Window next window" new button to its
toolbar.
(nb You could add more, or others if you want)
Now one single mouse click on those buttons when in either respective
Window view will flip you to the other without closing your work.

Thanks, /betty/. This solution works great.

Donald L McDaniel
Please reply to the original thread
and keep the conversation in order.
=======================================================

[Ogden Johnson III]

[and I snipped most or all of them]

Post by /betty/

Post by Donald McDaniel

Post by Ogden Johnson III
[Will this Eternal September©® never end?]

If I have disturbed you, please forgive me.

No, as I said originally, just confused me.

Post by /betty/
Not really, if I understand you correctly I'll hereby try and demystify.

[Snip demystification attempt.]

What /betty/ said. I could never have done it that well;
wouldn't even have tried. I bow at the master computer-geek's
feet.

[BillB]

Post by Ogden Johnson III
What /betty/ said. I could never have done it that well;
wouldn't even have tried. I bow at the master computer-geek's feet.

We all hope that the masterful mistress of play and punishment
doesn't consider you to be a peon.