Alternatives to Forte Agent

Post by sunny
Seeing as it appears Forte Agent Development is dead, what is a good
alternative to it?
There seems to be many client for binary newsgroups but not so many for
text newsgroups.
Regards
Karun

Still works great for text groups. The only improvements have been for
binaries.

KenW

Scott

2018-12-29 17:26:59 UTC

Post by KenW

Still works great for text groups. The only improvements have been for
binaries.

Apart from the issue with time limiting killfiles which it seems Agent
is unwilling to fix.

Martin

2018-12-31 12:17:29 UTC

Post by KenW

Still works great for text groups. The only improvements have been for
binaries.

Apart from the issue with time limiting killfiles which it seems Agent
is unwilling to fix.

Ralph provided a fix.

--
Martin in Zuid Holland

Scott

2018-12-31 17:48:30 UTC

Still works great for text groups. The only improvements have been for
binaries.

Apart from the issue with time limiting killfiles which it seems Agent
is unwilling to fix.

Ralph provided a fix.

I couldn't understand it, given I am not IT qualified. I expect the
seller to make sure the product works properly.

Martin

2019-01-01 13:37:49 UTC

Still works great for text groups. The only improvements have been for
binaries.

Apart from the issue with time limiting killfiles which it seems Agent
is unwilling to fix.

Ralph provided a fix.

I couldn't understand it, given I am not IT qualified. I expect the
seller to make sure the product works properly.

The seller makes no money because most copies of Agent in use were downloaded
free.

--
Martin in Zuid Holland

Scott

2019-01-01 14:44:52 UTC

Still works great for text groups. The only improvements have been for
binaries.

Apart from the issue with time limiting killfiles which it seems Agent
is unwilling to fix.

Ralph provided a fix.

I couldn't understand it, given I am not IT qualified. I expect the
seller to make sure the product works properly.

The seller makes no money because most copies of Agent in use were downloaded
free.

Well, mine wasn't. I assumed I was paying for support.

Roger

2019-01-01 15:56:01 UTC

Post by Martin
The seller makes no money because most copies of Agent in use were downloaded
free.

Forte doesn't make a charge for downloading Agent. Perhaps you
meant something else.

--
Roger

Scott

2019-01-01 16:15:23 UTC

Post by Martin
The seller makes no money because most copies of Agent in use were downloaded
free.

Forte doesn't make a charge for downloading Agent. Perhaps you
meant something else.

I thought there was Agent and Free Agent?

Puffer Belly

2019-01-01 17:50:47 UTC

The last version of Free Agent was 3.x.

Post by Martin
The seller makes no money because most copies of Agent in use were downloaded
free.

Forte doesn't make a charge for downloading Agent. Perhaps you
meant something else.

I thought there was Agent and Free Agent?

Christopher A. Lee

2019-01-01 19:40:35 UTC

On Tue, 01 Jan 2019 16:15:23 +0000, Scott

Post by Martin
The seller makes no money because most copies of Agent in use were downloaded
free.

Forte doesn't make a charge for downloading Agent. Perhaps you
meant something else.

I thought there was Agent and Free Agent?

There hasn't been a free version for a loooong time, and that wasn't
full-function.

Scott

2019-01-01 22:19:39 UTC

On Tue, 01 Jan 2019 13:40:35 -0600, Christopher A. Lee

Post by Christopher A. Lee
On Tue, 01 Jan 2019 16:15:23 +0000, Scott

Post by Martin
The seller makes no money because most copies of Agent in use were downloaded
free.

Forte doesn't make a charge for downloading Agent. Perhaps you
meant something else.

I thought there was Agent and Free Agent?

There hasn't been a free version for a loooong time, and that wasn't
full-function.

Thanks. That's what I thought.

Ken Blake

2018-12-29 17:12:59 UTC

Post by sunny
Seeing as it appears Forte Agent Development is dead, what is a good
alternative to it?
There seems to be many client for binary newsgroups but not so many for
text newsgroups.

I recommend that you pay no attention to the fact that Agent
development is dead. Your only concern should be whether you are happy
with its current version.

I'm running Agent 6, not even the latest version, and it's fine for
me. There's almost nothing I would like to see changed in it, and I
have no interest in alternatives.

Scott

2018-12-29 17:29:03 UTC

Post by sunny
Seeing as it appears Forte Agent Development is dead, what is a good
alternative to it?
There seems to be many client for binary newsgroups but not so many for
text newsgroups.

I recommend that you pay no attention to the fact that Agent
development is dead. Your only concern should be whether you are happy
with its current version.
I'm running Agent 6, not even the latest version, and it's fine for
me. There's almost nothing I would like to see changed in it, and I
have no interest in alternatives.

Ever tried limiting a kill-file to 30 days? Maybe you don't use
kill-files, or maybe you just let them accumulate. Having paid for
Agent at one stage, I would expect them to deal with known issues.

No, I am not happy with its current version.

Ken Blake

2018-12-29 19:04:52 UTC

On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 17:29:03 +0000, Scott

Post by sunny
Seeing as it appears Forte Agent Development is dead, what is a good
alternative to it?
There seems to be many client for binary newsgroups but not so many for
text newsgroups.

I recommend that you pay no attention to the fact that Agent
development is dead. Your only concern should be whether you are happy
with its current version.
I'm running Agent 6, not even the latest version, and it's fine for
me. There's almost nothing I would like to see changed in it, and I
have no interest in alternatives.

Ever tried limiting a kill-file to 30 days? Maybe you don't use
kill-files, or maybe you just let them accumulate. Having paid for
Agent at one stage, I would expect them to deal with known issues.

No, I've never tried limiting a kill file. Yes, I use kill files, but
I'm not interested in time-limiting them.

Post by Scott
No, I am not happy with its current version.

That's fine. You should use whatever you like best. We all work in
different ways, have different needs as well as different likes and
dislikes. *I* like Agent. If you don't, don't use it and find an
alternative you prefer.

My message was in reply to Sunny. If I understood him correctly, like
me, he likes Agent but was concerned that there will be no
improvements to it.

Christopher A. Lee

2018-12-29 19:42:05 UTC

Post by Ken Blake
On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 17:29:03 +0000, Scott

Post by sunny
Seeing as it appears Forte Agent Development is dead, what is a good
alternative to it?
There seems to be many client for binary newsgroups but not so many for
text newsgroups.

I recommend that you pay no attention to the fact that Agent
development is dead. Your only concern should be whether you are happy
with its current version.
I'm running Agent 6, not even the latest version, and it's fine for
me. There's almost nothing I would like to see changed in it, and I
have no interest in alternatives.

Ever tried limiting a kill-file to 30 days? Maybe you don't use
kill-files, or maybe you just let them accumulate. Having paid for
Agent at one stage, I would expect them to deal with known issues.

No, I've never tried limiting a kill file. Yes, I use kill files, but
I'm not interested in time-limiting them.

It prevents their getting too big.

Post by Scott
No, I am not happy with its current version.

That's fine. You should use whatever you like best. We all work in
different ways, have different needs as well as different likes and
dislikes. *I* like Agent. If you don't, don't use it and find an
alternative you prefer.
My message was in reply to Sunny. If I understood him correctly, like
me, he likes Agent but was concerned that there will be no
improvements to it.

Agent is basically old technology. An ideal newsreader would have its
features but be fully zoomable - so it would probably need to be
coded in HTML and Java, accessed via your favourite browser while
still storing all the data at your computer.

Arthur Conan Doyle

2018-12-29 20:30:06 UTC

Post by Christopher A. Lee
Agent is basically old technology. An ideal newsreader would have its
features but be fully zoomable - so it would probably need to be
coded in HTML and Java, accessed via your favourite browser while
still storing all the data at your computer.

Usenet protocols and message formats haven't changed in decades, so the work is
coming up with a new UI. IIRC there have been several attempts to do this over
the years, but none very successful.

Not a big fan of using a browser as the UI engine. It would be an interesting
exercise to see how hard it would be to do a client in one of the Android or iOS
SDKs.

Suspect the biggest problem with a portable app would be where the underlying
message database would reside. On a PC its easy to maintain that database as
Agent and other readers do. Current Usenet servers aren't really setup for
online access as they are essenitally serving batches of messages and keeping
that DB on a phone wouldn't be very efficient.

Scott

2018-12-29 19:58:00 UTC

Post by Ken Blake
On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 17:29:03 +0000, Scott

Post by sunny
Seeing as it appears Forte Agent Development is dead, what is a good
alternative to it?
There seems to be many client for binary newsgroups but not so many for
text newsgroups.

I recommend that you pay no attention to the fact that Agent
development is dead. Your only concern should be whether you are happy
with its current version.
I'm running Agent 6, not even the latest version, and it's fine for
me. There's almost nothing I would like to see changed in it, and I
have no interest in alternatives.

Ever tried limiting a kill-file to 30 days? Maybe you don't use
kill-files, or maybe you just let them accumulate. Having paid for
Agent at one stage, I would expect them to deal with known issues.

No, I've never tried limiting a kill file. Yes, I use kill files, but
I'm not interested in time-limiting them.

Post by Scott
No, I am not happy with its current version.

That's fine. You should use whatever you like best. We all work in
different ways, have different needs as well as different likes and
dislikes. *I* like Agent. If you don't, don't use it and find an
alternative you prefer.
My message was in reply to Sunny. If I understood him correctly, like
me, he likes Agent but was concerned that there will be no
improvements to it.

Concerns that I share.

DrTeeth

2019-01-02 16:35:51 UTC

On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 12:04:52 -0700, just as I was about to take a

Post by Ken Blake
My message was in reply to Sunny. If I understood him correctly, like
me, he likes Agent but was concerned that there will be no
improvements to it.

--
Cheers,

DrT

** Amateurs built the Ark, but professionals built the Titanic.**

Geoff

2018-12-29 21:48:38 UTC

On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 17:29:03 +0000, Scott

Post by Scott
Ever tried limiting a kill-file to 30 days? Maybe you don't use
kill-files, or maybe you just let them accumulate. Having paid for
Agent at one stage, I would expect them to deal with known issues.
No, I am not happy with its current version.

There was a patch posted last year about fixing the expiry problem in
alt.usenet.offline-reader.forte-agent.modified but the critical posts
are no longer available. It looks like Eternal September has lost all
bodies in that group prior to June 2017. The original post was March
3, 2017. I believe the patch pushed the malfunction date out to a time
I don't expect to be alive anymore.

Geoff

2018-12-29 21:56:20 UTC

Post by Ken Blake
On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 17:29:03 +0000, Scott

Found the original in this group.

***@4ax.com

Mandy Liefbowitz

2018-12-30 03:01:27 UTC

Post by Geoff

Post by Ken Blake
On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 17:29:03 +0000, Scott

Found the original in this group.

Message-ID: <***@4ax.com> , yerp,
that's the baby, all right. :)

Riiiiiighghghttt. Okay, so I should read *all* of a thread before
bothering to "help".

Sorry. Naughty girly, won't do it again.

Some hopes. :)

Mand.

Geoff

2018-12-30 05:20:24 UTC

On Sun, 30 Dec 2018 03:01:27 +0000, Mandy Liefbowitz

Post by Geoff

Post by Ken Blake
On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 17:29:03 +0000, Scott

Found the original in this group.

that's the baby, all right. :)
Riiiiiighghghttt. Okay, so I should read *all* of a thread before
bothering to "help".
Sorry. Naughty girly, won't do it again.
Some hopes. :)
Mand.

No worries. I didn't lock the bodies in a.u.o.f.modified but I locked
the original post here and was glad to still have it.

I do wish Forté would have updated Agent but as a software developer
myself I know how projects can end up.

Mandy Liefbowitz

2018-12-30 09:37:12 UTC

Post by Geoff
On Sun, 30 Dec 2018 03:01:27 +0000, Mandy Liefbowitz

Post by Geoff

Post by Ken Blake
On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 17:29:03 +0000, Scott

Found the original in this group.

that's the baby, all right. :)
Riiiiiighghghttt. Okay, so I should read *all* of a thread before
bothering to "help".
Sorry. Naughty girly, won't do it again.
Some hopes. :)
Mand.

No worries. I didn't lock the bodies in a.u.o.f.modified but I locked
the original post here and was glad to still have it.

"Lock"? Sorry, but how would one do that?

Post by Geoff
I do wish Forté would have updated Agent but as a software developer
myself I know how projects can end up.

Very, very true.
Mand.

Ralph Fox

2018-12-30 10:02:58 UTC

Post by Geoff
No worries. I didn't lock the bodies in a.u.o.f.modified but I locked
the original post here and was glad to still have it.

"Lock"? Sorry, but how would one do that?

"Message >> Keep" -- which puts a padlock icon next to the message and
prevents the message from being purged/deleted.

2018-12-30 17:06:18 UTC

Post by Geoff
No worries. I didn't lock the bodies in a.u.o.f.modified but I locked
the original post here and was glad to still have it.

"Lock"? Sorry, but how would one do that?

"Message >> Keep" -- which puts a padlock icon next to the message and
prevents the message from being purged/deleted.

Hi Ralph. I know there isn't a version of Agent for a Samsung Tab, but I'd
like to use a Usenet app if there's a half-decent one available. Do you
recommend one?

Ralph Fox

2018-12-30 19:05:13 UTC

Post by &y
Hi Ralph. I know there isn't a version of Agent for a Samsung Tab, but I'd
like to use a Usenet app if there's a half-decent one available. Do you
recommend one?

I have NewsGroup Reader on my Android tablet. It has a few quirks but it does work.
One can post with it, even though one or two reviews claim otherwise.

<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=net.piaohong.newsgroup>

--
Kind regards
Ralph
🦊

2018-12-30 20:09:45 UTC

Post by &y
Hi Ralph. I know there isn't a version of Agent for a Samsung Tab, but I'd
like to use a Usenet app if there's a half-decent one available. Do you
recommend one?

I have NewsGroup Reader on my Android tablet. It has a few quirks but it does work.
One can post with it, even though one or two reviews claim otherwise.
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=net.piaohong.newsgroup>

Thanks. I'll give it a try. Trouble is, after using Agent for such a long time
all other programs are going to feel clumsy and buggy. I'll be patient.

2018-12-30 20:17:55 UTC

Post by &y
Hi Ralph. I know there isn't a version of Agent for a Samsung Tab, but I'd
like to use a Usenet app if there's a half-decent one available. Do you
recommend one?

I have NewsGroup Reader on my Android tablet. It has a few quirks but it does work.
One can post with it, even though one or two reviews claim otherwise.
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=net.piaohong.newsgroup>

I might even try using my Tab's browser (firefox) to access Google Groups if I
can find a way to keep my email and identity hidden.

Mandy Liefbowitz

2018-12-31 19:31:06 UTC

Post by Geoff
No worries. I didn't lock the bodies in a.u.o.f.modified but I locked
the original post here and was glad to still have it.

"Lock"? Sorry, but how would one do that?

"Message >> Keep" -- which puts a padlock icon next to the message and
prevents the message from being purged/deleted.

Oh, that. Yes, thank you, I'm aware of that one. I should have
thought of it in this context but I've only heard "lock" used on web
boards.

Usually, if I want to keep a message or thread, I'll move it to a
folder roughly named after the newsgroup but kept offline. That way, I
*can't* accidentally un-keep it and delete it. Usually.

Sorry for my glacial wits but it's way, way past little girls'
bedtimes.

Have a lovely new year.
Mand.

Ralph Fox

2018-12-30 00:33:41 UTC

Post by Geoff
There was a patch posted last year about fixing the expiry problem in
alt.usenet.offline-reader.forte-agent.modified but the critical posts
are no longer available.

The critical posts are still available from multiple sources, including:

Google groups
* https://groups.google.com/d/topic/alt.usenet.offline-reader.forte-agent.modified/IkwfYsUL5Sg (patch details - auorfam)
* https://groups.google.com/d/topic/alt.usenet.offline-reader.forte-agent/mfsDscqIEhA (announcement - auorfa)

Narkive
* http://narkive.com/vhHbQQjO (patch details - auorfam)

1001 Newsgroups
* http://1001newsgroups.1001annonces.com/message.php?group=alt.usenet.offline-reader.forte-agent.modified&id=149 (patch details - auorfam)
* http://1001newsgroups.1001annonces.com/message.php?group=alt.usenet.offline-reader.forte-agent&id=10997 (announcement - auorfa)

Howard Knight
* http://al.howardknight.net/msgid.cgi?ID=148887615300 (patch details - auorfam)
* http://al.howardknight.net/msgid.cgi?ID=154612934700 (announcement - auorfa)

APN or other news servers with at least 2 years retention
* news:***@4ax.com (patch details - auorfam)
* news:***@4ax.com (announcement - auorfa)

--
Kind regards
Ralph
🦊

Mandy Liefbowitz

2018-12-30 02:58:45 UTC

Post by Ken Blake
On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 17:29:03 +0000, Scott

There was a patch posted last year about fixing the expiry problem in
alt.usenet.offline-reader.forte-agent.modified but the critical posts
are no longer available.

They may be available in Google Groups (ewwwww!) and they are on
either news.forteinc.com or freenews.netfront.net , I download from
both so I'm not sure which retained them.

I could smoosh the messages in the threads into one huge message then
upload it if you like?

Post by Ken Blake
It looks like Eternal September has lost all
bodies in that group prior to June 2017. The original post was March
3, 2017. I believe the patch pushed the malfunction date out to a time
I don't expect to be alive anymore.

Or perhaps the lovely Mr. Fox still has copies? He seems to be the
one who started the thread.
Message-ID: <***@4ax.com> if you can
reach it somehow.

At least that *looks* like the one you might be referring to.

Mand.

Martin

2018-12-31 12:18:23 UTC

Post by sunny
Seeing as it appears Forte Agent Development is dead, what is a good
alternative to it?
There seems to be many client for binary newsgroups but not so many for
text newsgroups.

I recommend that you pay no attention to the fact that Agent
development is dead. Your only concern should be whether you are happy
with its current version.
I'm running Agent 6, not even the latest version, and it's fine for
me. There's almost nothing I would like to see changed in it, and I
have no interest in alternatives.

Did you try to use Ralph's fix?

--
Martin in Zuid Holland

DrTeeth

2019-01-02 16:35:16 UTC

On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 17:29:03 +0000, just as I was about to take a

There is *always* room for improvement. The interface is a mess and
the fact that they have relied on Ralph for the killfile fix and have
not released it officially is a disgrace IF they pretend to still be
in business.

--
Cheers,

DrT

** Amateurs built the Ark, but professionals built the Titanic.**

Arthur Conan Doyle

2019-01-02 20:24:04 UTC

Post by DrTeeth
There is *always* room for improvement. The interface is a mess and
the fact that they have relied on Ralph for the killfile fix and have
not released it officially is a disgrace IF they pretend to still be
in business.

The problem is that the sustainable business model today is subscription, not
one time purchase, and no one is going to subscribe to a Usenet newsreader
client.

Agent was created when the market was growing for purchased PC software.
(Mainframe software always had a recurring maintenance charge). You can do that
when your product sales are covering the investment in new features and bug
fixes. Basically your previous customers are getting a free ride.

That's OK when the market is growing. It doesn't work when the market is
shrinking.

Ideally, companies in this situation would make the code open source and see if
there is enough community support to keep it going. Apparently the owner(s) of
Agent think there is enough residual value in the code base to not want to do
that.

Martin

2019-01-05 10:19:05 UTC

It also doesn't work when old versions that are adequate for many are available
free legally.

--
Martin in Zuid Holland

Scott

2019-01-05 11:02:05 UTC

It also doesn't work when old versions that are adequate for many are available
free legally.

Are you sure? I expect there will be people who would rather pay for
software with support rather than rely on some dubious download. That
would certainly be my position.

Arthur Conan Doyle

2019-01-05 14:22:09 UTC

Post by Martin
It also doesn't work when old versions that are adequate for many are available
free legally.

Are you sure? I expect there will be people who would rather pay for
software with support rather than rely on some dubious download. That
would certainly be my position.

I suspect he's refering to clients like Thunderbird. Nothing dubious about those
when downloaded from an official source.

Martin

2019-01-06 12:22:21 UTC

Post by Martin
It also doesn't work when old versions that are adequate for many are available
free legally.

Are you sure? I expect there will be people who would rather pay for
software with support rather than rely on some dubious download. That
would certainly be my position.

I suspect he's refering to clients like Thunderbird. Nothing dubious about those
when downloaded from an official source.

and availability of free versions of Agent up to Agent 3.3

--
Martin in Zuid Holland

Scott

2019-01-07 10:06:15 UTC

Post by Martin
It also doesn't work when old versions that are adequate for many are available
free legally.

Are you sure? I expect there will be people who would rather pay for
software with support rather than rely on some dubious download. That
would certainly be my position.

I suspect he's refering to clients like Thunderbird. Nothing dubious about those
when downloaded from an official source.

and availability of free versions of Agent up to Agent 3.3

Which will inevitably have the same bug as Agent 7?

Jim H

2019-01-06 03:39:39 UTC

On Sat, 05 Jan 2019 11:02:05 +0000, in

Post by Scott
I expect there will be people who would rather pay for
software with support rather than rely on some dubious download. That
would certainly be my position.

That would be my position also and I bought upgrades to Agent I didn't
really need just to support Forte. But the most recent Agent version
has a long track record of being free of serious bugs - apart from the
recent filter expiration thing - for which there's a patch - and has
so many USENET related features that those who lean more toward free
than toward supported really have very little reason to consider
anything but cost even if Agent were currently actively developed and
supported.

And then on the Forte end of things... if Agent were being updated
what the heck would they add to it apart from something email related?
If it needs enhancement on the USENET side, I freely admit - at risk
of looking foolish - to not having a clue what might be conspicuous by
its absence.

What I definitely don't want is an "updated" user interface or the
more "modern" washed out appearance made popular (aka shoved down our
throats) by Microsoft.

--
Jim H

Martin

2019-01-06 12:24:35 UTC

Post by Jim H
On Sat, 05 Jan 2019 11:02:05 +0000, in

Post by Scott
I expect there will be people who would rather pay for
software with support rather than rely on some dubious download. That
would certainly be my position.

That would be my position also and I bought upgrades to Agent I didn't
really need just to support Forte. But the most recent Agent version
has a long track record of being free of serious bugs - apart from the
recent filter expiration thing - for which there's a patch - and has
so many USENET related features that those who lean more toward free
than toward supported really have very little reason to consider
anything but cost even if Agent were currently actively developed and
supported.
And then on the Forte end of things... if Agent were being updated
what the heck would they add to it apart from something email related?
If it needs enhancement on the USENET side, I freely admit - at risk
of looking foolish - to not having a clue what might be conspicuous by
its absence.
What I definitely don't want is an "updated" user interface or the
more "modern" washed out appearance made popular (aka shoved down our
throats) by Microsoft.

I would like a better spelling checker.

--
Martin in Zuid Holland

Optimist

2019-01-06 12:44:19 UTC

Post by Jim H
On Sat, 05 Jan 2019 11:02:05 +0000, in

Post by Scott
I expect there will be people who would rather pay for
software with support rather than rely on some dubious download. That
would certainly be my position.

That would be my position also and I bought upgrades to Agent I didn't
really need just to support Forte. But the most recent Agent version
has a long track record of being free of serious bugs - apart from the
recent filter expiration thing - for which there's a patch - and has
so many USENET related features that those who lean more toward free
than toward supported really have very little reason to consider
anything but cost even if Agent were currently actively developed and
supported.
And then on the Forte end of things... if Agent were being updated
what the heck would they add to it apart from something email related?
If it needs enhancement on the USENET side, I freely admit - at risk
of looking foolish - to not having a clue what might be conspicuous by
its absence.
What I definitely don't want is an "updated" user interface or the
more "modern" washed out appearance made popular (aka shoved down our
throats) by Microsoft.

I would like a better spelling checker.

I would like to be able to extract information from the address book in CSV format, with everything
in nice columns, for example to print labels for Christmas cards, instead of this unusable (to me)
XML format.

Jaimie Vandenbergh

2019-01-06 16:06:04 UTC

On Sun, 06 Jan 2019 12:44:19 +0000, Optimist

Post by Optimist
I would like to be able to extract information from the address book in CSV format, with everything
in nice columns, for example to print labels for Christmas cards, instead of this unusable (to me)
XML format.

There are plenty of tools to convert XML to CSV, but they're of
complexity varying from "quite" to "bloody hell", thanks to XML being
too large a problem space to do it automatically.

Try this one - http://xmlgrid.net/xml2text.html

Cheers - Jaimie

--
human /mia'ow/ n.: Combination can-opener and heated chair-cover

Ralph Fox

2019-01-06 17:36:48 UTC

This can already be done.

Dawn (the address book converter) can export your Agent address book
in CSV format.

For instructions, read my reply to your post 2 years ago:

<news:***@4ax.com>
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.usenet.offline-reader.forte-agent/K21I7gZYp0I/0ic54mkiCwAJ>
<https://alt.usenet.offline-reader.forte-agent.narkive.com/5SmHVmkr/address-book-font#post9>
<http://al.howardknight.net/msgid.cgi?ID=154679561900>

--
Kind regards
Ralph

DrTeeth

2019-01-06 13:56:58 UTC

On Sun, 06 Jan 2019 03:39:39 +0000, just as I was about to take a

Post by Jim H
If it needs enhancement on the USENET side, I freely admit - at risk
of looking foolish - to not having a clue what might be conspicuous by
its absence.

Automatic checking for new posts after a certain time like email
clients have implemented?

--
Cheers,

DrT

** Amateurs built the Ark, but professionals built the Titanic.**

Tim Slattery

2019-01-06 17:15:07 UTC

Post by Jim H
And then on the Forte end of things... if Agent were being updated
what the heck would they add to it apart from something email related?
If it needs enhancement on the USENET side, I freely admit - at risk
of looking foolish - to not having a clue what might be conspicuous by
its absence.

Unicode support.

--
Tim Slattery
tim <at> risingdove <dot> com

Scott

2019-01-07 10:13:03 UTC

Post by Jim H
On Sat, 05 Jan 2019 11:02:05 +0000, in

Post by Scott
I expect there will be people who would rather pay for
software with support rather than rely on some dubious download. That
would certainly be my position.

Thanks. I like Agent so I'm going to try the patch. Is it within the
capabilities of the 'driver' (not a a 'mechanic') to do? Is there any
risk of wrecking Agent or is the downside limited to the patch not
working as intended?

Martin

2019-01-06 12:20:22 UTC

It also doesn't work when old versions that are adequate for many are available
free legally.

Are you sure? I expect there will be people who would rather pay for
software with support rather than rely on some dubious download.

The downloads aren't dubious.

Post by Scott
That
would certainly be my position.

The reason that Agent is no longer being developed is caused by lack of sales

--
Martin in Zuid Holland

DrTeeth

2019-01-06 13:58:52 UTC

On Sun, 06 Jan 2019 13:20:22 +0100, just as I was about to take a

Post by Martin
The reason that Agent is no longer being developed is caused by lack of sales

And the reason for the lack of sales? IMHO it is down to the way Forte
has and is behaving. They effectively abandon Agent, then blame the
lack of sales for developing it, which loses sales ad infinitum!

--
Cheers,

DrT

** Amateurs built the Ark, but professionals built the Titanic.**

Ken Blake

2019-01-06 15:38:28 UTC

Post by DrTeeth
On Sun, 06 Jan 2019 13:20:22 +0100, just as I was about to take a

Post by Martin
The reason that Agent is no longer being developed is caused by lack of sales

The reason for the lack of sales is that Usenet use is already way
down, and is rapidly decreasing even further.

Jaimie Vandenbergh

2019-01-06 16:06:44 UTC

Post by DrTeeth
On Sun, 06 Jan 2019 13:20:22 +0100, just as I was about to take a

Post by Martin
The reason that Agent is no longer being developed is caused by lack of sales

The reason for the lack of sales is that Usenet use is already way
down, and is rapidly decreasing even further.

There are dozens of us still using it! Dozens I tell you!

Cheers - Jaimie

--
It's important to be comfortable in your own skin
because it's illegal to wear someone else's.

Martin

2019-01-07 09:56:36 UTC

Post by DrTeeth
On Sun, 06 Jan 2019 13:20:22 +0100, just as I was about to take a

Post by Martin
The reason that Agent is no longer being developed is caused by lack of sales

The reason for the lack of sales is that Usenet use is already way
down, and is rapidly decreasing even further.

--
Martin in Zuid Holland

Scott

2019-01-07 10:09:24 UTC

Post by DrTeeth
On Sun, 06 Jan 2019 13:20:22 +0100, just as I was about to take a

Post by Martin
The reason that Agent is no longer being developed is caused by lack of sales

Quite. It's like the tale of the customer wanting something in the
shop being told 'There's no demand for that, and you're the seventh
person I've told so far today.'

l***@fl.it

2018-12-29 18:09:21 UTC

Post by sunny
Seeing as it appears Forte Agent Development is dead, what is a good
alternative to it?
There seems to be many client for binary newsgroups but not so many for
text newsgroups.

I recommend that you pay no attention to the fact that Agent
development is dead. Your only concern should be whether you are happy
with its current version.
I'm running Agent 6, not even the latest version, and it's fine for
me. There's almost nothing I would like to see changed in it, and I
have no interest in alternatives.

Spot on and I'm still using 5.00 lol

Anonymous

2018-12-30 18:01:38 UTC

Post by sunny
Seeing as it appears Forte Agent Development is dead, what is a good
alternative to it?
There seems to be many client for binary newsgroups but not so many for
text newsgroups.

I recommend that you pay no attention to the fact that Agent
development is dead. Your only concern should be whether you are happy
with its current version.
I'm running Agent 6, not even the latest version, and it's fine for
me. There's almost nothing I would like to see changed in it, and I
have no interest in alternatives.

I'm also using Agent 6, and I'm satisfied with it. It does what I
need for it to do.

The "new" features offered by the later versions of Agent were
nothing that I wanted, and some of them would interfere with the
way that I use Agent. So I am going to stay with Agent 6 for as
long as fiture operating systems allow me to do so. I've been using
Agent for USENET for 23 years.

Bart Dinnissen

2018-12-29 17:21:42 UTC

Mesnews, Pan, Thunderbird. I ' m not sure however about their developement.

I agree with KenW and Ken Blake: for text groups Agent is still the best. I use version 6 too.

--
Bart Dinnissen

sunny

2018-12-29 18:14:11 UTC

Today got the reply from Forte, so it doesnt look like its being developed anymore.
Hello,
At the moment we do not have plans to release a new version of Agent.
Regards,
Ana Beck
Agent Team
www.forteinc.com <http://www.forteinc.com>

KenW

2018-12-29 18:46:20 UTC

"At the moment" does not mean it is dead. Personally, I can't see the need for any updates. What is so hard about deleting parts of a kill file ? You guys are just lazy.

KenW

2018-12-29 18:55:55 UTC

I know posters in my kill file are still around because of jerks
replying to their posts . alt.comp.freeware is a perfect example.

KenW

FredW

2018-12-29 20:25:51 UTC

Post by KenW
I know posters in my kill file are still around because of jerks
replying to their posts . alt.comp.freeware is a perfect example.

Very true.

--
Fred W. (nld)

Scott

2018-12-29 19:56:20 UTC

"At the moment" does not mean it is dead. Personally, I can't see the need for any updates. What is so hard about deleting parts of a kill file ? You guys are just lazy.

How am I supposed to know who is active and who is inactive if their
posts are kill-filed ???

KenW

2018-12-29 20:16:32 UTC

On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 19:56:20 +0000, Scott

"At the moment" does not mean it is dead. Personally, I can't see the need for any updates. What is so hard about deleting parts of a kill file ? You guys are just lazy.

How am I supposed to know who is active and who is inactive if their
posts are kill-filed ???

I only kill file those that have been around for years pulling the
same shit.

KenW

Scott

2018-12-31 17:50:41 UTC

Post by KenW
On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 19:56:20 +0000, Scott

"At the moment" does not mean it is dead. Personally, I can't see the need for any updates. What is so hard about deleting parts of a kill file ? You guys are just lazy.

How am I supposed to know who is active and who is inactive if their
posts are kill-filed ???

I only kill file those that have been around for years pulling the
same shit.

I kill file anyone wanting to sell drugs.

Geoff

2018-12-29 21:34:23 UTC

On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 19:56:20 +0000, Scott
<***@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:

[snip]

Post by Scott
How am I supposed to know who is active and who is inactive if their
posts are kill-filed ???

I have changed my kill method to Ignore. It's slightly more effective
than delete in that it ignores any replies to the killed subject and
you can see the subject is still active but the disadvantage is the
topic still shows up in your list.

Ken Blake

2018-12-30 17:24:03 UTC

Post by Geoff
I have changed my kill method to Ignore. It's slightly more effective
than delete in that it ignores any replies to the killed subject and
you can see the subject is still active but the disadvantage is the
topic still shows up in your list.

Let me ask two questions about "ignore," which I've never used:

Lets say you have five posters, A, B, C, D, and E. B is killfiled and
set to "ignore."

A posts a message.

B replies to it and his post is ignored.

C replies to B, so his post is ignored too.

Then D replies to C. Is his post also ignored?

Then E replies to *A*. Is his post ignored?

Jaimie Vandenbergh

2018-12-30 17:33:15 UTC

Lets say you have five posters, A, B, C, D, and E. B is killfiled and
set to "ignore."

There's no straight up "Ignore" kill action, Geoff is paraphrasing. Go
take a look at the Filters/New Kill Filter panel. There's a selector for
Kill Action.

Delete
Mark read
Ignore thread

If you select "Delete" or "Mark read", only the message that trips the
kill filter will be affected. Others will show up as usual, so there'll
be gaps in the thread or pre-'read' messages in it.

If you choose "Ignore thread", the triggering message and all
*descendents* of it will be marked ignore.

Cheers - Jaimie

--
Real Daleks don't climb the stairs - real Daleks level the building.

Ken Blake

2018-12-30 18:13:49 UTC

On Sun, 30 Dec 2018 17:33:15 +0000, Jaimie Vandenbergh

Lets say you have five posters, A, B, C, D, and E. B is killfiled and
set to "ignore."

There's no straight up "Ignore" kill action, Geoff is paraphrasing. Go
take a look at the Filters/New Kill Filter panel. There's a selector for
Kill Action.
Delete
Mark read
Ignore thread

Yes, I know. I assumed that "Ignore thread" was what Geoff meant.

Post by Jaimie Vandenbergh
If you select "Delete" or "Mark read", only the message that trips the
kill filter will be affected.

Yes, I know. I've been using "Delete" for years.

Post by Jaimie Vandenbergh
Others will show up as usual, so there'll
be gaps in the thread or pre-'read' messages in it.
If you choose "Ignore thread", the triggering message and all
*descendents* of it will be marked ignore.

You didn't fully quote my message, so let me ask the questions again
(with additional comments):

Lets say you have five posters, A, B, C, D, and E. B is killfiled and
set to "ignore" (ignore thread)

A posts a message.

B replies to it and his post is ignored.

C replies to B, so his post is ignored too.
(That's what you call a "descendant," so I assume that will
also be ignored.)

Then D replies to C. Is his post also ignored?
(Is that also considered a "descendent," and will it also
be ignored?)

Then E replies to *A*. Is his post ignored?
(I assume that that is *not* considered a "descendent"
and it will *not* be ignored. Is that correct?)

Jaimie Vandenbergh

2018-12-30 18:57:04 UTC

Post by Ken Blake
On Sun, 30 Dec 2018 17:33:15 +0000, Jaimie Vandenbergh

Lets say you have five posters, A, B, C, D, and E. B is killfiled and
set to "ignore."

There's no straight up "Ignore" kill action, Geoff is paraphrasing. Go
take a look at the Filters/New Kill Filter panel. There's a selector for
Kill Action.
Delete
Mark read
Ignore thread

Yes, I know. I assumed that "Ignore thread" was what Geoff meant.

Ah, sorry. I thought you meant you'd not used a kill filter before! I'm
a bit brain dead after all-day Christmas travelling.

Post by Ken Blake
Lets say you have five posters, A, B, C, D, and E. B is killfiled and
set to "ignore" (ignore thread)
A posts a message.
B replies to it and his post is ignored.
C replies to B, so his post is ignored too.
(That's what you call a "descendant," so I assume that will
also be ignored.)

Yep.

Post by Ken Blake
Then D replies to C. Is his post also ignored?
(Is that also considered a "descendent," and will it also
be ignored?)

Yep.

Post by Ken Blake
Then E replies to *A*. Is his post ignored?
(I assume that that is *not* considered a "descendent"
and it will *not* be ignored. Is that correct?)

Correct, it will not be ignored.

Cheers - Jaimie

--
Real Daleks don't climb the stairs - real Daleks level the building.

Ken Blake

2018-12-30 19:46:49 UTC

On Sun, 30 Dec 2018 18:57:04 +0000, Jaimie Vandenbergh

Post by Ken Blake
On Sun, 30 Dec 2018 17:33:15 +0000, Jaimie Vandenbergh

Lets say you have five posters, A, B, C, D, and E. B is killfiled and
set to "ignore."

There's no straight up "Ignore" kill action, Geoff is paraphrasing. Go
take a look at the Filters/New Kill Filter panel. There's a selector for
Kill Action.
Delete
Mark read
Ignore thread

Yes, I know. I assumed that "Ignore thread" was what Geoff meant.

Ah, sorry. I thought you meant you'd not used a kill filter before! I'm
a bit brain dead after all-day Christmas travelling.

No problem. We all misread posts now and then.

Yep.

Post by Ken Blake
Then D replies to C. Is his post also ignored?
(Is that also considered a "descendent," and will it also
be ignored?)

Yep.

Post by Ken Blake
Then E replies to *A*. Is his post ignored?
(I assume that that is *not* considered a "descendent"
and it will *not* be ignored. Is that correct?)

Correct, it will not be ignored.

Great! Your answers are the ones I was hoping for. It looks like
exactly what I want. I'll change one killfile filter to test it for a
while, and then probably change them all to that.

Ralph Fox

2018-12-30 22:10:01 UTC

Post by Ken Blake
Great! Your answers are the ones I was hoping for. It looks like
exactly what I want. I'll change one killfile filter to test it for a
while, and then probably change them all to that.

There is a risk using Ignore when you have tens of thousands of headers
in a group (you don't purge regularly). Because of the hash collision
issue, the ignored flag may occasionally jump from one thread to another
and ignore a few messages which should not be ignored.

This is not a problem when you purge regularly.

--
Kind regards
Ralph
🦊

Gene Wirchenko

2018-12-31 02:26:36 UTC

On Sun, 30 Dec 2018 12:46:49 -0700, Ken Blake <***@invalid.news.com>
wrote:

[snip]

I tend to mark read posters for 30 days as many are just
short-time (or one-time) posters. Someone has to be bad over a long
period of time before I mark read for good or delete. I go global on
mark read posters.

I tend to not delete to avoid a thread getting holes.
Occasionally, some posters I mark read make a worthwhile post and I
can go back to the marked post.

Obvious spam, I tend to delete the whole thread by title, again
for 30 days.

Sincerely,

Gene Wirchenko

Geoff

2018-12-30 21:27:09 UTC

On Sun, 30 Dec 2018 17:33:15 +0000, Jaimie Vandenbergh

Post by Jaimie Vandenbergh
There's no straight up "Ignore" kill action, Geoff is paraphrasing. Go
take a look at the Filters/New Kill Filter panel. There's a selector for
Kill Action.
Delete
Mark read
Ignore thread

Jaimie is correct. The radio button is marked "Ignore thread" but the
filter will be labeled "Ignore" in the filters list. I don't know if
any version had an "Ignore" vs. "Ignore thread" so it's an unnecessary
distinction in my opinion. I know the behavior is different in "Ignore
thread" vs. "Ignore subthread" on later versions vs older ones.

My method is as follows:
If the thread is just something I am not interested in I will hit the
"I" key (Ignore thread hotkey).

If the poster is chronic and worthy of killfile I will ctrl-K on one
of his posts and create a kill filter. I have two classes of killees;
ignored and deleted, depends on the severity if his infraction and my
mood. If he's a total crank, he gets deleted. If he's just a troll and
he attracts replies from people who just can't control themselves I
set him to ignore thread and I don't even have to see his fish.

Filters on subjects are always "Delete" in my opinion. (e.g. "subject:
solution manual" or the ever-handy "subject: {[¡-ÿ]+}")

I accept the default of "delete after 30 days of inactivity" except
for all my subject filters. Of my 17 total filters, only one is close
to expiry, (4 days left) but all the others are at 29 and 30 days so
these clowns are prolific in their trollity.

Ralph Fox

2018-12-30 18:46:15 UTC

X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 6.00/32.1186
Lets say you have five posters, A, B, C, D, and E. B is killfiled and
set to "ignore."
A posts a message.
B replies to it and his post is ignored.
C replies to B, so his post is ignored too.
Then D replies to C. Is his post also ignored?

Yes. The entire subthread will be ignored.
D's reply is part of the subthread from 'B' on down.

Then E replies to *A*. Is his post ignored?

No, not in your Agent 6.00, and not in Agent 4.0 and later.
E's reply is not part of the subthread from 'B' on down.

______
REF: See 'Ignore Subthread' at <http://www.forteinc.com/release/notes.php?id=40>

--
Kind regards
Ralph
🦊

Ken Blake

2018-12-30 19:48:05 UTC

Yes. The entire subthread will be ignored.
D's reply is part of the subthread from 'B' on down.

Then E replies to *A*. Is his post ignored?

No, not in your Agent 6.00, and not in Agent 4.0 and later.
E's reply is not part of the subthread from 'B' on down.

Thanks very much. That's what Jamie said, and it's always better to
get the same reply from two people.

Jaimie Vandenbergh

2018-12-30 21:21:12 UTC

Yes. The entire subthread will be ignored.
D's reply is part of the subthread from 'B' on down.

Then E replies to *A*. Is his post ignored?

No, not in your Agent 6.00, and not in Agent 4.0 and later.
E's reply is not part of the subthread from 'B' on down.

Thanks very much. That's what Jamie said, and it's always better to
get the same reply from two people.

In the case of differing answers, always go with Ralph :)

Cheers - Jaimie

--
Real Daleks don't climb the stairs - real Daleks level the building.

Ken Blake

2018-12-30 22:06:31 UTC

On Sun, 30 Dec 2018 21:21:12 +0000, Jaimie Vandenbergh

Yes. The entire subthread will be ignored.
D's reply is part of the subthread from 'B' on down.

Then E replies to *A*. Is his post ignored?

No, not in your Agent 6.00, and not in Agent 4.0 and later.
E's reply is not part of the subthread from 'B' on down.

Thanks very much. That's what Jamie said, and it's always better to
get the same reply from two people.

In the case of differing answers, always go with Ralph :)

LOL! Thanks for your modesty. But yes, I agree. Ralph knows more about
Agent than any of us here.

Marc Wilson

2019-01-02 02:08:26 UTC

In alt.usenet.offline-reader.forte-agent, (Jaimie Vandenbergh) wrote in

Post by Ken Blake
Then E replies to *A*. Is his post ignored?

No, not in your Agent 6.00, and not in Agent 4.0 and later.
E's reply is not part of the subthread from 'B' on down.

Thanks very much. That's what Jamie said, and it's always better to
get the same reply from two people.

It should really be called "ignore subthread", IMO.

--
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God? - Epicurus

Jaimie Vandenbergh

2019-01-02 02:19:49 UTC

On Wed, 02 Jan 2019 02:08:26 +0000, Marc Wilson

Post by Marc Wilson
In alt.usenet.offline-reader.forte-agent, (Jaimie Vandenbergh) wrote in

Post by Ken Blake
Then E replies to *A*. Is his post ignored?

No, not in your Agent 6.00, and not in Agent 4.0 and later.
E's reply is not part of the subthread from 'B' on down.

Thanks very much. That's what Jamie said, and it's always better to
get the same reply from two people.

It should really be called "ignore subthread", IMO.

Yeah. When Ignore Subthread came into existence, that label should have
been updated to match. But it isn't, so it's inaccurate.

Cheers - Jaimie

--
Beer has food value, but food has no beer value.

Opinicus

2019-01-02 04:41:21 UTC

On Wed, 02 Jan 2019 02:08:26 +0000, Marc Wilson

Post by Marc Wilson
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God? - Epicurus

https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Epicurus#Disputed

--
Bob's Fact-Checking Service
Insert coin here []

pyotr filipivich

2018-12-31 00:37:21 UTC

Yes. The entire subthread will be ignored.
D's reply is part of the subthread from 'B' on down.

Then E replies to *A*. Is his post ignored?

No, not in your Agent 6.00, and not in Agent 4.0 and later.
E's reply is not part of the subthread from 'B' on down.
______
REF: See 'Ignore Subthread' at <http://www.forteinc.com/release/notes.php?id=40>

Hmm, I think I am going to splurge in the coming year, and upgrade
my verson of Agent.

--
pyotr filipivich
Next month's Panel: Graft - Boon or blessing?

Ralph Fox

2018-12-31 09:28:40 UTC

Post by pyotr filipivich
Hmm, I think I am going to splurge in the coming year, and upgrade
my verson of Agent.

For those not into massively large binaries, there are a few things in later
versions of Agent which you might (or might not) choose to turn off.

1) Agent 6.0 introduced compressed headers. This makes header downloads
faster in large binary groups.

If this works for you then there is absolutely no need to turn it off.

However compressed headers are not compatible with a few antivirus
programs. In that case, you might want to turn off compressed headers.

* Go to "Tools >> Servers and Accounts"
* Select the news server
* Click the :Advanced Settings" button
* Turn off "Request compressed headers from server"

REF: <http://www.forteinc.com/release/notes.php?id=60>

2) Agent 7.1 increased the maximum folder size from 8GB to 128GB
by using a new DAT file format with larger blocks (records).

Text users might find your DAT files are larger for the same number
of messages. This will only affect newly created folders / newly
subscribed newsgroups. Existing folders are not upgraded to the
new DAT file format.

To have Agent use the old smaller format for new folders / newly
subscribed newsgroups, set this AGENT.INI setting to 0

[Misc]
DATFileLargeBlocks=0

REF: <http://www.forteinc.com/agent/faq.php#C1AA20C11DC93B0D85257B8F00599ACB>

3) Agent 8.0 introduced "MegaJoin" for massively large binaries.

To turn off "MegaJoin", go to
Folder >> Default Properties >> Receiving Messages >> Usenet Archives
and un-check all the boxes.

--
Kind regards
Ralph

Happy New Year: 📆🕛🕭🎆🍻🎶

pyotr filipivich

2018-12-31 15:47:21 UTC

Post by pyotr filipivich
Hmm, I think I am going to splurge in the coming year, and upgrade
my verson of Agent.

For those not into massively large binaries, there are a few things in later
versions of Agent which you might (or might not) choose to turn off.
1) Agent 6.0 introduced compressed headers. This makes header downloads
faster in large binary groups.
If this works for you then there is absolutely no need to turn it off.
However compressed headers are not compatible with a few antivirus
programs. In that case, you might want to turn off compressed headers.
* Go to "Tools >> Servers and Accounts"
* Select the news server
* Click the :Advanced Settings" button
* Turn off "Request compressed headers from server"
REF: <http://www.forteinc.com/release/notes.php?id=60>
2) Agent 7.1 increased the maximum folder size from 8GB to 128GB
by using a new DAT file format with larger blocks (records).
Text users might find your DAT files are larger for the same number
of messages. This will only affect newly created folders / newly
subscribed newsgroups. Existing folders are not upgraded to the
new DAT file format.
To have Agent use the old smaller format for new folders / newly
subscribed newsgroups, set this AGENT.INI setting to 0
[Misc]
DATFileLargeBlocks=0
REF: <http://www.forteinc.com/agent/faq.php#C1AA20C11DC93B0D85257B8F00599ACB>
3) Agent 8.0 introduced "MegaJoin" for massively large binaries.
To turn off "MegaJoin", go to
Folder >> Default Properties >> Receiving Messages >> Usenet Archives
and un-check all the boxes.

Thanks for the tips.

Now if I can just remember where this will be filed when I get
there.

--
pyotr filipivich
Next month's Panel: Graft - Boon or blessing?

Ken Blake

2018-12-31 17:48:03 UTC

Yes. The entire subthread will be ignored.
D's reply is part of the subthread from 'B' on down.

I had a killfile for a particular person. It was set to delete and
yesterday I changed it to ignore.

Today I saw a reply to message he posted. It was not ignored. I didn't
see the message he replied to because it was deleted.

This seems very different from what you and Jaimie said. Can someone
tell me what's wrong and how to fix it?

Rather than changing an existing killfile entry, perhaps I need to
delete it and then recreate the new way. Could that be it?

Jaimie Vandenbergh

2018-12-31 19:27:21 UTC

Yes. The entire subthread will be ignored.
D's reply is part of the subthread from 'B' on down.

That's why it wasn't ignored. Since the A was deleted, it wasn't marked
as Ignore, so B wasn't ignored.

Post by Ken Blake
This seems very different from what you and Jaimie said. Can someone
tell me what's wrong and how to fix it?
Rather than changing an existing killfile entry, perhaps I need to
delete it and then recreate the new way. Could that be it?

It's just a result of the change you made. Any new messages by A will
result in the subthread below being ignored, but any other people's
replies to deleted messages will be visible.

Cheers - Jaimie

--
Real Daleks don't climb the stairs - real Daleks level the building.

Ken Blake

2018-12-31 20:18:13 UTC

On Mon, 31 Dec 2018 19:27:21 +0000, Jaimie Vandenbergh

Yes. The entire subthread will be ignored.
D's reply is part of the subthread from 'B' on down.

That's why it wasn't ignored. Since the A was deleted, it wasn't marked
as Ignore, so B wasn't ignored.

OK, that makes sense. So I just need to be patient, and wait until
nobody still replies to any old deleted rather than ignored A
messages.

Thanks again.

It's just a result of the change you made. Any new messages by A will
result in the subthread below being ignored, but any other people's
replies to deleted messages will be visible.
Cheers - Jaimie

Ralph Fox

2018-12-31 20:57:15 UTC

Post by Ken Blake
I had a killfile for a particular person. It was set to delete and
yesterday I changed it to ignore.
Today I saw a reply to message he posted. It was not ignored. I didn't
see the message he replied to because it was deleted.
This seems very different from what you and Jaimie said. Can someone
tell me what's wrong and how to fix it?

A) If you have not yet received a particular person's header, then an
'ignore subthread' filter will work on the header when it arrives,
but only while you do not delete the header. Your purge time should
be set to longer than the expected time for followups to arrive.

B) If you have already received a particular person's header and it
is not showing as marked ignored, then it is not enough to change
your filter to 'ignore' -- you also need to manually mark the
already-received header as 'ignored'.

C) If the particular person's header has already been deleted, then it is
too late for an 'ignore' filter to work on this particular subthread.

If you look at your filter, the filter expression only matches the
particular person's message. The filter expression does not match the
reply to message he posted.

* The filter _itself_ only marks the particular person's message
as ignored.
* _Threading_ then copies the ignored flag from the particular
person's message to the rest of the subthread. This will only work
when the particular person's message is still present and has been
marked ignored.

Help >> Index >> Ignore Subthread >> Watching and Ignoring Threads

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ QUOTE ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Important Notes!

* Be sure to keep at least one header in a watched or ignored thread
in order for this feature to work. This ensures that the feature
will work, no matter how you have set the purge properties. These
settings are on the What to Purge panel of the Default Properties
for All Folders or the Properties for Selected Folders dialog.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ QUOTE ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Post by Ken Blake
Rather than changing an existing killfile entry, perhaps I need to
delete it and then recreate the new way. Could that be it?

No.

If the particular person's message has already been deleted, then it
is too late.

I would suggest reading the whole help page at "Help >> Index >> Ignore
Subthread >> Watching and Ignoring Threads".

--
Kind regards
Ralph

ðŸ¦Š

Ken Blake

2018-12-31 22:18:44 UTC

The term "purge time" is new to me. I don't have it set to anything.
Should I? Where do I find it?

When I read a message and go to the next one, the message I just read
is gone. I like it that way. Is that a barrier to setting a killfile
filter to "ignore"?

Post by Ralph Fox
B) If you have already received a particular person's header and it
is not showing as marked ignored, then it is not enough to change
your filter to 'ignore' -- you also need to manually mark the
already-received header as 'ignored'.
C) If the particular person's header has already been deleted, then it is
too late for an 'ignore' filter to work on this particular subthread.
If you look at your filter, the filter expression only matches the
particular person's message. The filter expression does not match the
reply to message he posted.
* The filter _itself_ only marks the particular person's message
as ignored.
* _Threading_ then copies the ignored flag from the particular
person's message to the rest of the subthread. This will only work
when the particular person's message is still present and has been
marked ignored.
Help >> Index >> Ignore Subthread >> Watching and Ignoring Threads
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ QUOTE ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Important Notes!
* Be sure to keep at least one header in a watched or ignored thread
in order for this feature to work. This ensures that the feature
will work, no matter how you have set the purge properties. These
settings are on the What to Purge panel of the Default Properties
for All Folders or the Properties for Selected Folders dialog.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ QUOTE ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Post by Ken Blake
Rather than changing an existing killfile entry, perhaps I need to
delete it and then recreate the new way. Could that be it?

No.
If the particular person's message has already been deleted, then it
is too late.
I would suggest reading the whole help page at "Help >> Index >> Ignore
Subthread >> Watching and Ignoring Threads".

Ralph Fox

2018-12-31 22:56:16 UTC

Post by Ken Blake
The term "purge time" is new to me. I don't have it set to anything.
Should I? Where do I find it?

The number of days before a message is purged. That is, your
own retention in Agent (not your news server's retention).

Look at: Folder >> Default Properties >> Purging Messages >> What to Purge
There are four possible "When message is older than:" settings in Default Properties
1. Read messages without bodies
2. Read messages with bodies
3. Unread messages without bodies
4. Unread messages with bodies

There are also equivalent settings in Folder Properties and in Property Schemes.

Post by Ken Blake
When I read a message and go to the next one, the message I just read
is gone. I like it that way. Is that a barrier to setting a killfile
filter to "ignore"?

When you say "gone", that could mean either one of two things.
The answer to your question depends on which of these you mean:

(1) The message is not visible in the message list, but it would
become visible if you changed the view to "All Messages".
Perhaps your view is set to "unread messages". The message
becomes marked read and is gone from the "unread messages"
view.

(2) The message is not present in the message list even when
the view is set to "All Messages". That is, the message is
permanently deleted.

--
Kind regards
Ralph

🦊

Ken Blake

2019-01-01 16:26:29 UTC

Post by Ken Blake
The term "purge time" is new to me. I don't have it set to anything.
Should I? Where do I find it?

The number of days before a message is purged. That is, your
own retention in Agent (not your news server's retention).
Look at: Folder >> Default Properties >> Purging Messages >> What to Purge
There are four possible "When message is older than:" settings in Default Properties
1. Read messages without bodies
2. Read messages with bodies
3. Unread messages without bodies
4. Unread messages with bodies

Thanks again. I just checked and it's set to 30 days, which should be
more than enough,

Post by Ralph Fox
There are also equivalent settings in Folder Properties and in Property Schemes.

Post by Ken Blake
When I read a message and go to the next one, the message I just read
is gone. I like it that way. Is that a barrier to setting a killfile
filter to "ignore"?

When you say "gone", that could mean either one of two things.
(1) The message is not visible in the message list, but it would
become visible if you changed the view to "All Messages".
Perhaps your view is set to "unread messages". The message
becomes marked read and is gone from the "unread messages"
view.

Sorry, I should have been more explicit. Yes, it becomes visible when
I change the view to All Messages.

Post by Ralph Fox
(2) The message is not present in the message list even when
the view is set to "All Messages". That is, the message is
permanently deleted.

Ralph Fox

2019-01-01 18:03:51 UTC

Post by Ken Blake
When I read a message and go to the next one, the message I just read
is gone. I like it that way. Is that a barrier to setting a killfile
filter to "ignore"?

Sorry, I should have been more explicit. Yes, it becomes visible when
I change the view to All Messages.

AFAIK #1 is *not* a barrier to setting a killfile filter to "ignore".

Post by Ralph Fox
(2) The message is not present in the message list even when
the view is set to "All Messages". That is, the message is
permanently deleted.

#2 *is* a barrier to setting a killfile filter to "ignore".

--
Kind regards
Ralph

🦊

Ken Blake

2019-01-02 15:48:19 UTC

Post by Ken Blake
The term "purge time" is new to me. I don't have it set to anything.
Should I? Where do I find it?

The number of days before a message is purged. That is, your
own retention in Agent (not your news server's retention).
Look at: Folder >> Default Properties >> Purging Messages >> What to Purge
There are four possible "When message is older than:" settings in Default Properties
1. Read messages without bodies
2. Read messages with bodies
3. Unread messages without bodies
4. Unread messages with bodies

Thanks again. I just checked and it's set to 30 days, which should be
more than enough,

Post by Ralph Fox
There are also equivalent settings in Folder Properties and in Property Schemes.

Post by Ken Blake
When I read a message and go to the next one, the message I just read
is gone. I like it that way. Is that a barrier to setting a killfile
filter to "ignore"?

Sorry, I should have been more explicit. Yes, it becomes visible when
I change the view to All Messages.

I've continued to experiment with a filter for a single person. It's
been changed (actually deleted, then recreated) from "delete" to
"ignore."

A message from him that I know existed (because I see it quoted) is
visible neither in Unread Messages nor All Messages. It seems to have
been deleted not ignored.

And, as I said above, I see replies to that message, both in Unread
Messages and All Messages. They were neither deleted nor ignored.

So any suggestions? What's wrong? What should I do?

Ralph Fox

2019-01-02 17:26:10 UTC

Post by Ken Blake
I've continued to experiment with a filter for a single person. It's
been changed (actually deleted, then recreated) from "delete" to
"ignore."
A message from him that I know existed (because I see it quoted) is
visible neither in Unread Messages nor All Messages. It seems to have
been deleted not ignored.
And, as I said above, I see replies to that message, both in Unread
Messages and All Messages. They were neither deleted nor ignored.
So any suggestions? What's wrong? What should I do?

Insufficient information.

Perhaps the thread has cross-posted messages, and the missing message
was not crossposted to the group you are reading. The other posters
who replied read that message in another group.

Perhaps you have another kill filter which *is* deleting the message.
When more than one filter matches a message, Agent will only apply
one filter's actions to a message.

--
Kind regards
Ralph

Ken Blake

2019-01-02 20:03:54 UTC

I don't think that's the case, but I'll check and report back.

I've seen this happen on more than one thread.

Post by Ralph Fox
Perhaps you have another kill filter which *is* deleting the message.
When more than one filter matches a message, Agent will only apply
one filter's actions to a message.

That thought had occurred to and I checked that before posting. Nope,
I don't.

Ken Blake

2019-01-02 20:45:21 UTC

I don't think that's the case, but I'll check and report back.
I've seen this happen on more than one thread.

I just checked. I found about 5 or 6 threads with visible responses to
the killfiled name. None of them were crossposted.

Post by Ralph Fox
Perhaps you have another kill filter which *is* deleting the message.
When more than one filter matches a message, Agent will only apply
one filter's actions to a message.

That thought had occurred to and I checked that before posting. Nope,
I don't.

Jack Meoff

2019-01-02 21:13:58 UTC

Subject: Re: Alternatives to Forte Agent
Newsgroups: alt.usenet.offline-reader.forte-agent

Bye bye Forte.
Bye Bye Agent.

Ralph Fox

2019-01-03 05:41:45 UTC

Ken

Run this test

1. Go to the group you where you were missing a header.

Move all the messages out of that group into an empty folder
for safe keeping, while you run this test.

2. Disable filtering in Agent.
* Go to "Folder >> Default Properties >> Receiving Messages >> Usenet Filters"
and put a check-mark in the box "Disable filtering for all folders"

3. Disable cross-post checking in Agent
* Go to "Folder >> Default Properties >> Receiving Messages >> Usenet Crossposting"
and remove the check-mark from the box "Enable crosspost checking"

4. Now go to that group and sample enough headers in the group that
you should get the missing header.

Check whether you got the missing header.

5. Delete all of the sampled headers.

6. Put filtering back the way it was when you started.
Undo step #2 to re-enable filtering in Agent.

7. Configure cross-post checking to work even when sampling headers.
* Go to "Folder >> Default Properties >> Receiving Messages >> Usenet Crossposting"
* Put the check-mark back in the box "Enable crosspost checking"
* Remove the check-mark from the box "Look for crossposted messages only when retrieving NEW headers"

8. Again, go to that group and sample enough headers in the group that
you should get the missing header.

Check whether you got the missing header this time.

9. Delete all of the sampled headers again.

10. Put cross-post checking back the way it was when you started.

11. Lastly, move all the messages back into that group.

If you did not get the missing header in step #4, then the header is not
in this group on your news server "news.individual.net". It might be in
some other group, or it might not be on your news server.

If you got the header in step #4 but you did not get the header in step #8,
then the message was deleted either by your filters or by your crosspost
checking settings.

--
Kind regards
Ralph

🦊

Ken Blake

2019-01-03 16:01:01 UTC

Post by Ralph Fox
Ken
Run this test

...

Thanks very much. No time now, but if I don't get to do it later
today, I'll do it tomorrow.

Ken

Ken Blake

2019-01-03 16:11:46 UTC

Post by Ralph Fox
Ken
Run this test

...
Thanks very much. No time now, but if I don't get to do it later
today, I'll do it tomorrow.

I'm not sure, but I think he *may* be posting through googlegroups.
Could that affect my filtering and could that be the reason for what's
happening?

Geoff

2019-01-03 02:00:37 UTC