Discussion:
hotmail faul with agent 8
(too old to reply)
h***@hope.com
2024-07-11 09:49:50 UTC
Permalink
Hi
I have been using my hotmail account for years with agent 8 with no problem

But over the last 3 months agent keeps telling me that I have the wrong user name or password

I know for a fact that they are correct BECAUSE the next time I start agent up it logs in all okay.

Also I can log in with the same user name and pass word on Firefox all okay

It just seams to be with agent

So any one had this problem and did they fix it


Thanks

Dumb blond
Puffer Belly
2024-07-11 14:45:58 UTC
Permalink
See " Notice: Agent and outlook.com / hotmail.com email accounts"
posted to this newsgroup on July 3.
Post by h***@hope.com
Hi
I have been using my hotmail account for years with agent 8 with no problem
But over the last 3 months agent keeps telling me that I have the wrong user name or password
I know for a fact that they are correct BECAUSE the next time I start agent up it logs in all okay.
Also I can log in with the same user name and pass word on Firefox all okay
It just seams to be with agent
So any one had this problem and did they fix it
Thanks
Dumb blond
h***@hope.com
2024-07-12 00:19:43 UTC
Permalink
Is this to do with my account to have there password?

If so done that ages ago

Thanks

Dumb blonde

================================
Post by Puffer Belly
See " Notice: Agent and outlook.com / hotmail.com email accounts"
posted to this newsgroup on July 3.
Post by h***@hope.com
Hi
I have been using my hotmail account for years with agent 8 with no problem
But over the last 3 months agent keeps telling me that I have the wrong user name or password
I know for a fact that they are correct BECAUSE the next time I start agent up it logs in all okay.
Also I can log in with the same user name and pass word on Firefox all okay
It just seams to be with agent
So any one had this problem and did they fix it
Thanks
Dumb blond
Michael Thompson
2024-07-11 22:11:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by h***@hope.com
Hi
I have been using my hotmail account for years with agent 8 with no problem
But over the last 3 months agent keeps telling me that I have the wrong user name or password
I know for a fact that they are correct BECAUSE the next time I start agent up it logs in all okay.
Also I can log in with the same user name and pass word on Firefox all okay
It just seams to be with agent
So any one had this problem and did they fix it
Thanks
Dumb blond
You need to go to your MS account to request an app password to use for
POP3 access.
h***@hope.com
2024-07-12 00:17:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael Thompson
Post by h***@hope.com
Hi
I have been using my hotmail account for years with agent 8 with no problem
But over the last 3 months agent keeps telling me that I have the wrong user name or password
I know for a fact that they are correct BECAUSE the next time I start agent up it logs in all okay.
Also I can log in with the same user name and pass word on Firefox all okay
It just seams to be with agent
So any one had this problem and did they fix it
Thanks
Dumb blond
You need to go to your MS account to request an app password to use for
POP3 access.
Been to my account and done that and got the password ages ago, BUT also changed it a few times

It still does not connect every time like I say
Post by Michael Thompson
Post by h***@hope.com
But over the last 3 months agent keeps telling me that I have the wrong user name or password
then the next time I load up agent it connects all okay.

So strange it is with Agent only

Thanks for the info any way

Dumb blonde

=================================
Ralph Fox
2024-07-12 10:40:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by h***@hope.com
Post by h***@hope.com
But over the last 3 months agent keeps telling me that I have the wrong user name or password
That is because Hotmail's email server keeps telling Agent that you
have the wrong username or password.
Post by h***@hope.com
It still does not connect every time like I say
then the next time I load up agent it connects all okay.
It is an issue with Hotmail's email server. Microsoft has notified
users about this issue.

Go to your Hotmail account and read the email from Microsoft with the
subject "Action Needed – You may lose access to some of your third-party
mail and calendar apps". See how that email has a link "Modern
Authentication Methods now needed to continue syncing...".

Follow that link which will take you to a Microsoft web page like this:
<https://support.microsoft.com/en-gb/office/modern-authentication-methods-now-needed-to-continue-syncing-outlook-email-in-non-microsoft-email-apps-c5d65390-9676-4763-b41f-d7986499a90d>

Scroll down that Microsoft web page to the sub-heading "Basic
Authentication interim experience" and read the paragraph.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ QUOTE ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Basic Authentication interim experience

Until September 16th, users signing into Outlook.com through
Basic Authentication may experience recurring password prompts in
Outlook and other third-party email applications. This is a known
issue. After September 16th, users attempting to connect their
Microsoft accounts through Basic Authentication will fail to do
so.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ QUOTE ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

That paragraph told you to expect problems like this. That paragraph
told you this is a known issue.
--
Kind regards
Ralph Fox
🦊

Better half a loaf then no bread.
h***@hope.com
2024-07-12 22:55:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ralph Fox
Post by h***@hope.com
Post by h***@hope.com
But over the last 3 months agent keeps telling me that I have the wrong user name or password
That is because Hotmail's email server keeps telling Agent that you
have the wrong username or password.
Oh I see now why it keeps telling me I have the wrong user name and password BUT they are correct,
it is hotmail's server at fault YES ?
=======================================
Post by Ralph Fox
Post by h***@hope.com
It still does not connect every time like I say
then the next time I load up agent it connects all okay.
It is an issue with Hotmail's email server. Microsoft has notified
users about this issue.
Go to your Hotmail account and read the email from Microsoft with the
subject "Action Needed – You may lose access to some of your third-party
mail and calendar apps". See how that email has a link "Modern
Authentication Methods now needed to continue syncing...".
<https://support.microsoft.com/en-gb/office/modern-authentication-methods-now-needed-to-continue-syncing-outlook-email-in-non-microsoft-email-apps-c5d65390-9676-4763-b41f-d7986499a90d>
Scroll down that Microsoft web page to the sub-heading "Basic
Authentication interim experience" and read the paragraph.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ QUOTE ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Basic Authentication interim experience
Until September 16th, users signing into Outlook.com through
Basic Authentication may experience recurring password prompts in
Outlook and other third-party email applications. This is a known
issue. After September 16th, users attempting to connect their
===========================================
Post by Ralph Fox
Microsoft accounts through Basic Authentication will fail to do so.
So will Agent STILL be able to connect or not? . If not any work round to still use agent?

=====================================
Post by Ralph Fox
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ QUOTE ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
That paragraph told you to expect problems like this. That paragraph
told you this is a known issue.
I see now must have missed that email.
Ralph Fox
2024-07-13 00:29:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by h***@hope.com
Post by Ralph Fox
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ QUOTE ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
[...]
Post by h***@hope.com
Post by Ralph Fox
After September 16th, users attempting to connect their
Microsoft accounts through Basic Authentication will fail to do so.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ QUOTE ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
So will Agent STILL be able to connect or not? . If not any work round to still use agent?
Do you have 2-step verification set up with your Microsoft Hotmail
account?

Clear cookies in your web browser and then go to the Hotmail web site
and log in. After you enter your username and password, do you also
need to enter a security code to finish logging in?
--
Kind regards
Ralph Fox
🦊

He's an ill cook that cannot lick his own fingers.
h***@hope.com
2024-07-13 08:15:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ralph Fox
Post by h***@hope.com
Post by Ralph Fox
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ QUOTE ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
[...]
Post by h***@hope.com
Post by Ralph Fox
After September 16th, users attempting to connect their
Microsoft accounts through Basic Authentication will fail to do so.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ QUOTE ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
So will Agent STILL be able to connect or not? . If not any work round to still use agent?
Do you have 2-step verification set up with your Microsoft Hotmail
account?
Yes

======================================
Post by Ralph Fox
Clear cookies in your web browser and then go to the Hotmail web site
and log in. After you enter your username and password, do you also
need to enter a security code to finish logging in?
After setting up 2-step verification it tells me that I need their password to log in
I generate their password and put it in Agent.
I then log into Agent and all is okay

DOES NOT ASK FOR ANY CODE

BUT the next time I log in it tell me wrong user name or password.
I log in again and all is okay.
This how it works now.
===========================

BUT IF I log in from Fire Fox I put in my email and password it then say's your will need
"2-step verification" I have two choices vi email or phone
I put phone then get a code that I have to put in the web page
I get logged in all okay .
===========================================

I took off "2-step verification" and then made a NEW password and once again all worked fine for a
bit then the same user name and password not correct.
BUT the next time works fine.
============================#

BTW at all times logging in with agent it does not ask for "2-step verification"
BUT with Firefox it does
so how does that work.
================================

Thank you

Dumb Blonde
================================
Ralph Fox
2024-07-13 22:18:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by h***@hope.com
BUT the next time I log in it tell me wrong user name or password.
I log in again and all is okay.
This how it works now.
You can:
* Wait until after 16 September 2024 to see whether the problem
goes away.
* Contact Hotmail support.
Post by h***@hope.com
BTW at all times logging in with agent it does not ask for "2-step verification"
BUT with Firefox it does
so how does that work.
Firefox is a web browser. Agent is not. You are comparing
apples with oranges.

When you log in with Firefox, you are entering your username and
password into a web page. The web server then sends Firefox to
another web page which asks for your 2-step verification code.

Email programs generally cannot do this "2-step verification".
When you log in to the email server with Agent (or another
email program), you are *not* on a web page. The email server
cannot send Agent to a web page which asks for your 2-step
verification code.
--
Kind regards
Ralph Fox
🦊

One doth the scath and another hath the scorn.
h***@hope.com
2024-07-13 22:42:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ralph Fox
Post by h***@hope.com
BUT the next time I log in it tell me wrong user name or password.
I log in again and all is okay.
This how it works now.
* Wait until after 16 September 2024 to see whether the problem
goes away.
* Contact Hotmail support.
So LOOKS LIKE got to abandon Agent till 16 September 2024 after 30 years use.

And then hope Agent works. Looks like the end of Agent with hotmail gmail etc

Shame

=======================================================
Ralph Fox
2024-07-13 22:50:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by h***@hope.com
Looks like the end of Agent with hotmail gmail etc
This is not a problem with Gmail etc., but only with Hotmail.


*** TROLL ALERT *** TROLL ALERT *** TROLL ALERT ***
h***@hope.com
2024-07-14 10:13:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ralph Fox
Post by h***@hope.com
Looks like the end of Agent with hotmail gmail etc
This is not a problem with Gmail etc., but only with Hotmail.
So If you have only got Hotmail accounts and September fix does not work, what happens to agent
then?
==============================
Post by Ralph Fox
*** TROLL ALERT *** TROLL ALERT *** TROLL ALERT ***
SORRY do not understand the above

Dumb Blond
Paul S Person
2024-07-14 15:38:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ralph Fox
Post by h***@hope.com
Looks like the end of Agent with hotmail gmail etc
This is not a problem with Gmail etc., but only with Hotmail.
*** TROLL ALERT *** TROLL ALERT *** TROLL ALERT ***
And you've been feeding it.
--
"Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"
h***@hope.com
2024-07-14 21:34:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul S Person
Post by Ralph Fox
Post by h***@hope.com
Looks like the end of Agent with hotmail gmail etc
This is not a problem with Gmail etc., but only with Hotmail.
*** TROLL ALERT *** TROLL ALERT *** TROLL ALERT ***
And you've been feeding it.
HOW? and what does it mean you have lost me?
MikeB (Look At End Of Message For Real Address)
2024-08-03 05:22:09 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 11 Jul 2024 15:11:00 -0700, Michael Thompson
Post by Michael Thompson
Post by h***@hope.com
I have been using my hotmail account for years with agent 8 with no problem
But over the last 3 months agent keeps telling me that I have the wrong user name or password
I know for a fact that they are correct BECAUSE the next time I start agent up it logs in all okay.
Also I can log in with the same user name and pass word on Firefox all okay
It just seams to be with agent
You need to go to your MS account to request an app password to use for
POP3 access.
Outlook/Hotmail servers have been quite regularly rejecting username
and/or password for donkey's years in my experience ! It normally
quietly resolves itself because Agent retries several times before
reporting an error and giving up. But you can often find no real
shortage of historic random failures in task manager. If a failure is
reported after several refused login attempts then the hotmail problem
has more often than not also 'just gone away' next time you try.

Although I would agree that this has become a very significant issue
as of just lately, it's certainly not a problem exclusive to Ye Olde
Agent. In fact I'm seeing a very much bigger issue with Ye Olde
Sylpheed which I use on an ancient tablet because I don't think that
it retries at all.




However, and much more importantly, has anyone actually attempted to
regularly retrieve mail from outlook/hotmail servers using the 2FA and
App Password approach ?

I'm getting an increasingly really bad feeling that this is in fact a
"one time passcode" system rather than an implied much more secure
randomly generated lengthy password for all future accesses.

If so, then this would suggest that if you use Agent (or whatever) as
your mail client (as I have done ever since it first became possible
to handle email as well as news) then you will have to login via the
outlook/hotmail web service to obtain a shiny new App Password each
and every time that you want to use Agent (or whatever) to DL mail.

As I use Agent to automatically monitor, DL and archive a significant
number of hotmail and numerous other mail A/Cs this will be a right
old PITA to say the least so here's hoping I'm very wrong here !
Post by Michael Thompson
App passwords are unique for each sign-in, so you don't need to remember them.
If you do have to enter your credentials again for some reason, simply create a new app password.
This looks like *really* bad news to me :( Not to mention 2FA itself
being *really* bad news in any case because the nearest mobile phone
signal is a 5 mile walk away from my usual location for most of year !

--
Mike
email: mikeb <at> twowheels <dot> plus <dot> com
h***@hope.com
2024-08-03 08:23:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by MikeB (Look At End Of Message For Real Address)
On Thu, 11 Jul 2024 15:11:00 -0700, Michael Thompson
Post by Michael Thompson
Post by h***@hope.com
I have been using my hotmail account for years with agent 8 with no problem
But over the last 3 months agent keeps telling me that I have the wrong user name or password
I know for a fact that they are correct BECAUSE the next time I start agent up it logs in all okay.
Also I can log in with the same user name and pass word on Firefox all okay
It just seams to be with agent
You need to go to your MS account to request an app password to use for
POP3 access.
Outlook/Hotmail servers have been quite regularly rejecting username
and/or password for donkey's years in my experience ! It normally
quietly resolves itself because Agent retries several times before
reporting an error and giving up. But you can often find no real
shortage of historic random failures in task manager. If a failure is
reported after several refused login attempts then the hotmail problem
has more often than not also 'just gone away' next time you try.
Although I would agree that this has become a very significant issue
as of just lately, it's certainly not a problem exclusive to Ye Olde
Agent. In fact I'm seeing a very much bigger issue with Ye Olde
Sylpheed which I use on an ancient tablet because I don't think that
it retries at all.
However, and much more importantly, has anyone actually attempted to
regularly retrieve mail from outlook/hotmail servers using the 2FA and
App Password approach ?
I'm getting an increasingly really bad feeling that this is in fact a
"one time passcode" system rather than an implied much more secure
randomly generated lengthy password for all future accesses.
If so, then this would suggest that if you use Agent (or whatever) as
your mail client (as I have done ever since it first became possible
to handle email as well as news) then you will have to login via the
outlook/hotmail web service to obtain a shiny new App Password each
and every time that you want to use Agent (or whatever) to DL mail.
As I use Agent to automatically monitor, DL and archive a significant
number of hotmail and numerous other mail A/Cs this will be a right
old PITA to say the least so here's hoping I'm very wrong here !
Post by Michael Thompson
App passwords are unique for each sign-in, so you don't need to remember them.
If you do have to enter your credentials again for some reason, simply create a new app password.
This looks like *really* bad news to me :( Not to mention 2FA itself
being *really* bad news in any case because the nearest mobile phone
signal is a 5 mile walk away from my usual location for most of year !
====================================================

Like you I have been using Agent since 1995 and no problems at all

with 4 emails perfect

NOW all sort of problems

Did all of the above , got new app password set up two way app password etc etc


Put into Agent works okay for about two times. then fault agent does not recognise your etc etc

As you say try again and it works . BUT now if you do it more than 3 time hotmail comes back your
account is locked some one has put to many passwords in. you then have to go thru all the dam
security things and make a NEW APP PASSWORD what a bloody mess.

So it looks like no fault with agent BUT just because it does not support hotmail two way
authentication service it will not work now.

AS far as I can see it is only with hotmail/outlook emails , all my other emails work fine.

What I have done is to go to my hotmail account and FORWARD MY EMAILS to another account other than
hotmail.

Pain in the neck but it is a work round so I can keep Agent

Dumb Blond

===============================
Paul S Person
2024-08-03 17:21:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by h***@hope.com
Like you I have been using Agent since 1995 and no problems at all
with 4 emails perfect
NOW all sort of problems
Did all of the above , got new app password set up two way app password etc etc
Put into Agent works okay for about two times. then fault agent does not recognise your etc etc
As you say try again and it works . BUT now if you do it more than 3 time hotmail comes back your
account is locked some one has put to many passwords in. you then have to go thru all the dam
security things and make a NEW APP PASSWORD what a bloody mess.
So it looks like no fault with agent BUT just because it does not support hotmail two way
authentication service it will not work now.
AS far as I can see it is only with hotmail/outlook emails , all my other emails work fine.
What I have done is to go to my hotmail account and FORWARD MY EMAILS to another account other than
hotmail.
A couple decades back, a malicious poster in a news group forced me to
create different emails for different purposes. To the ISP these
appeared to be "family member" emails.

I quickly figured out that picking one for Agent to download and
forwarding the others to it was a good idea.

I am glad to see that it is a solution here as well.
Post by h***@hope.com
Pain in the neck but it is a work round so I can keep Agent
I don't regard it as a work around; I think it makes more sense than
checking a bunch of different places. Especially now, when some of
those places appear to be adopting a security so secure that mere
mortals cannot actually use it.
--
"Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"
Mike B
2024-08-04 02:03:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by h***@hope.com
====================================================
Like you I have been using Agent since 1995 and no problems at all
with 4 emails perfect
NOW all sort of problems
Did all of the above , got new app password set up two way app password etc etc
Put into Agent works okay for about two times. then fault agent does not recognise your etc etc
As you say try again and it works . BUT now if you do it more than 3 time hotmail comes back your
account is locked some one has put to many passwords in. you then have to go thru all the dam
security things and make a NEW APP PASSWORD what a bloody mess.
So it looks like no fault with agent BUT just because it does not support hotmail two way
authentication service it will not work now.
AS far as I can see it is only with hotmail/outlook emails , all my other emails work fine.
What I have done is to go to my hotmail account and FORWARD MY EMAILS to another account other than
hotmail.
Pain in the neck but it is a work round so I can keep Agent
Dumb Blond
===============================
Problems with MS locking accounts and then requiring them to be
reactivated with a new password have also been around for donkey's
years. In every instance that it's happened to me historically it was
apparently down to MS server redirect problems causing multiple access
attempts to be logged as an alleged security issue. There was no
hacking attempt, multiple access or genuine security issue whatsoever,
it was simply yet another MS c*ckup or it was quite intentional.

Whilst I haven't seen this issue very recently TBH, it has been a
really persistent problem no end of times in the past. Numerous A/Cs
have been locked many times over the years due to allegedly being
accessed from a MS IP address and not from the personal IP address
which I was without any doubt whatsoever using at the time !

I also suspect that MS has been quite intentionally doing it to force
users to change passwords for whatever reason they may have for doing
so. Reasons such as known MS security/data breaches. There have been
various occasions in the past when it has slowly but surely happened
to every single hotmail A/C I had over a period of several days.
Clearly not just a random issue with 1 A/C but MS forcing a password
change on every single A/C one after the other. There's no way that
could ever have been any genuine random security issue it was without
doubt an MS c*ckup or quite intentional !

I'm guessing that the problem with App Password rejections that you
are seeing is down to exactly the same MS issues that are also causing
all the traditional username/password rejections as well. One can only
hope that things will settle down and subsequently behave sensibly in
September ... but I obviously wouldn't be putting any money on that
happening at all seeing that MS are involved here :P

I'm not even going to be trying to make any changes at all until such
time as the existing username/password system is finally disabled
completely in the hope that things will then work at least mostly as
they are supposed to.

Dontcha just love shiny new forced upgrades that make life infinitely
more difficult, expensive and time consuming than what has worked
almost completely flawlessly and without fail for several decades ;)
Ralph Fox
2024-08-03 09:02:58 UTC
Permalink
X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 5.00/32.1171
However, and much more importantly, has anyone actually attempted to
regularly retrieve mail from outlook/hotmail servers using the 2FA and
App Password approach ?
I'm getting an increasingly really bad feeling that this is in fact a
"one time passcode" system rather than an implied much more secure
randomly generated lengthy password for all future accesses.
If so, then this would suggest that if you use Agent (or whatever) as
your mail client (as I have done ever since it first became possible
to handle email as well as news) then you will have to login via the
outlook/hotmail web service to obtain a shiny new App Password each
and every time that you want to use Agent (or whatever) to DL mail.
As I use Agent to automatically monitor, DL and archive a significant
number of hotmail and numerous other mail A/Cs this will be a right
old PITA to say the least so here's hoping I'm very wrong here !
Here, Agent 8's "Test Connection" button still successfully logs into
the outlook.com server with the same App Password I created a month ago.

FYI Agent 8 has a "Test Connection" button which logs into the mail
server but after logging in does not download email. I use IMAP in
Thunderbird (not POP in Agent) to actually download email.
Post by Michael Thompson
App passwords are unique for each sign-in, so you don't need to remember them.
If you do have to enter your credentials again for some reason, simply create a new app password.
I believe this means app passwords are unique for each app that signs in.
If you have three email clients, say Agent, Pegasus, and Eudora, then:

1. You create one app password for Agent, enter that into Agent,
but don't remember/record it anywhere else.

2. You create a second app password for Pegasus, enter it into Pegasus,
but don't remember/record it anywhere else.

3. You create a third app password for Eudora, enter it into Eudora,
but don't remember/record it anywhere else.

If you later decide to ditch Eudora, the idea is you could login to
your Microsoft Account and cancel only that particular app password.

The fly in the ointment with this idea is that Microsoft (unlike Google)
does not let you give a name to each app password. So in your Microsoft
Account, you may not be able to tell which one is the one you want to
cancel. I presume Microsoft expects you to cancel all your app passwords
and then create new ones for Agent and Pegasus.
--
Kind regards
Ralph Fox
🦊

The burnt child dreads the fire.
MikeB (Look At End Of Message For Real Address)
2024-08-04 02:51:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ralph Fox
I believe this means app passwords are unique for each app that signs in.
1. You create one app password for Agent, enter that into Agent,
but don't remember/record it anywhere else.
2. You create a second app password for Pegasus, enter it into Pegasus,
but don't remember/record it anywhere else.
3. You create a third app password for Eudora, enter it into Eudora,
but don't remember/record it anywhere else.
If you later decide to ditch Eudora, the idea is you could login to
your Microsoft Account and cancel only that particular app password.
The fly in the ointment with this idea is that Microsoft (unlike Google)
does not let you give a name to each app password. So in your Microsoft
Account, you may not be able to tell which one is the one you want to
cancel. I presume Microsoft expects you to cancel all your app passwords
and then create new ones for Agent and Pegasus.
Thank you so much for your detailed response. I must say that on each
of the rare occasions over the past 30(ish) years that I've felt the
need to look for a solution to an Agent issue or potential issue, the
relevant info has already been posted here. More often than not by
your good self as well ! Your efforts are, as always, very much
appreciated :)

What you're suggesting is mostly what I assumed when I first read the
warning email so I obviously hope that we're both right ! It's just
that as time has marched on and the deadline approaches, I've also
seen more than a few reports of issues suggesting everything goes t*ts
up after a few successful access attempts and/or after some elapsed
period of time. Both of which kinda suggested App Passwords are not
valid indefinitely. Here's hoping this is just down to same MS issues
which are causing traditional username/password rejections and things
will stabilise in September. I wouldn't put any money on it though :P

Obviously MS can (and no doubt will) make life intentionally difficult
over time by refusing access for one random reason or another until a
new App Password has been obtained and all relevant hoops have been
jumped through. Just like they repeatedly have done over the years by
locking A/Cs and forcing users to change their normal password on the
pretence of security issues. Any excuse to 'encourage' users to just
do what we say when we say it and stop being awkward by falling into
line and using webmail or Outlook potentially insecure bloatware so we
can get a much better look at what you're doing !

This change is certainly a thorough PITA in all respects though not to
mention potentially making my email so ***@mn secure that not even I can
access it any more !

It also sounds to me like meticulous record keeping of App Password
and the specific system/application that it's being used for is going
to be required here. If only so you can manage stored App Passwords
sensibly if MS deem it unnecessary to 'name' them for ID purposes.
Otherwise it will likely end up like on one particular financial
services A/C I have where there are currently several dozen system
'profiles' despite me only ever using the same PC on the same IP
address for donkey's years. Every time I log in, yet another access
'profile' is created after a lengthy delay while my system is
allegedly 'secured' so it can be recognised immediately next time !

My main desktop system runs Agent and DLs everything from everywhere
automatically on a daily basis, most of the time autonomously. I also
have several other systems using Agent/Sylpheed etc plus standard web
access if needs be. They all access the same mail A/Cs using POP3/IMAP
on an as/when required basis from various different IPs and locations
at various different times. Providing that no two are ever trying to
do so at exactly the same time then all is usually well. This has been
the case for donkey's years now with no particular issues being
experienced. Presumably each application on each system will require
it's own unique App Password and all of them will then require
updating if/when MS start playing silly b*ggers !

I can see this login nonsense all going horribly wrong when I'm
several hundred miles away from where I need to be in order to try to
fix it and will be for several weeks/months. A complete loss of email
access, junk mail false positive error checking and archiving for
several weeks/months every time MS do something stupid. Going by past
MS stupidity and apparent user manipulation I'm also expecting much
the same "we've disabled your A/C and you must change your password
now because we've (quite falsely) detected security issues" or
whatever as has happened so many times over the years since hotmail
ended up being acquired by MS. Quite blatantly MS server issues and/or
deliberate attempts to force users to jump through hoops on demand and
change their password. No genuine hacking attempts or security issues
were ever detected it was always down to an MS redirect to a different
MS server that was causing apparent multiple or dubious access
attempts to be logged. This then resulted in accounts being locked and
subsequently needing to be reactivated with a new password.

So, all I need to do now is resolve the mobile phone issues so that I
can jump through all the required MS hoops on demand using the mobile
phone that I don't actually have to connect to the phone mast that
doesn't actually exist to receive a code to access my email. Just to
replicate what I've been doing quite satisfactorily and without any
particular issue for the past 30(ish) years !

Dontcha just love shiny new 'upgrades' that make life infinitely more
difficult, expensive and time consuming than what has worked almost
completely flawlessly and without fail for several decades ;)

As per usual, the hackers, scammers, bad guys in general and MS win
again by successfully making life unnecessarily difficult for every
normal user just trying to do what should be very quick/simple tasks.

--
Mike
email: mikeb <at> twowheels <dot> plus <dot> com
Ralph Fox
2024-08-04 09:05:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by MikeB (Look At End Of Message For Real Address)
What you're suggesting is mostly what I assumed when I first read the
warning email so I obviously hope that we're both right ! It's just
that as time has marched on and the deadline approaches, I've also
seen more than a few reports of issues suggesting everything goes t*ts
up after a few successful access attempts and/or after some elapsed
period of time. Both of which kinda suggested App Passwords are not
valid indefinitely. Here's hoping this is just down to same MS issues
which are causing traditional username/password rejections and things
will stabilise in September. I wouldn't put any money on it though :P
I am not sure whether app passwords will continue to be accepted
after the 16 September deadline.

This MS announcement and discussion from 2019 might suggest they
will not.
<https://techcommunity.microsoft.com/t5/exchange-team-blog/improving-security-together/ba-p/805892#link_0_13f3d7e50136f72_21_65dee>
--
Kind regards
Ralph Fox
🦊

Secret de Deux secret de Dieu, secret de trois secret de tous.
h***@hope.com
2024-08-04 11:25:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ralph Fox
I am not sure whether app passwords will continue to be accepted
after the 16 September deadline.
This MS announcement and discussion from 2019 might suggest they
will not.
<https://techcommunity.microsoft.com/t5/exchange-team-blog/improving-security-together/ba-p/805892#link_0_13f3d7e50136f72_21_65dee>
Well further on down the line I did all the app password stuff and worked for about 6 times , then
it cam back with the old error user name password etc etc.

I logged into my hotmail account and it came back your account has been locked , reason to many log
ins with wrong password.

So I thought it must be Agent so I deleted that hotmail account so it could not log in at all

I went to log in to my hotmail account and once again to many log ins with wrong password
How could this be as I have not got that in agent or any where else.
I went and logged into my email account again and the same thing locked out.

When I got back in I looked at who was logging in and to my surprise they was from all over the
world

So how is this happening? and how to stop it?


Dum Blond

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