Discussion:
What Is A News Group Server?
(too old to reply)
(PeteCresswell)
2008-07-03 00:46:24 UTC
Permalink
What do they do besides deal with very high volume?

e.g. If I wanted to keep reading alt.mountain-bike now that
Verizon has dropped all the alt. groups - and I didn't want to
use GoogleGroups - and I didn't want to hook into another news
group server - what's the news group server functionality that
would prevent me from running my own news group server software
on my own PC and just accumulating alt.Mountain-Bike traffic?
--
PeteCresswell
DevilsPGD
2008-07-03 03:28:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by (PeteCresswell)
What do they do besides deal with very high volume?
e.g. If I wanted to keep reading alt.mountain-bike now that
Verizon has dropped all the alt. groups - and I didn't want to
use GoogleGroups - and I didn't want to hook into another news
group server - what's the news group server functionality that
would prevent me from running my own news group server software
on my own PC and just accumulating alt.Mountain-Bike traffic?
Well, among other things, a full usenet feed requires 3TB-4TB of data
daily.

A full text feed is much less, maybe 4GB/day or so?

Expect to either pay money or be prepared to peer, meaning that part of
your feed relationship is to exchange articles with your other peers.

If you're just looking for a small number of newsgroups, you're better
off buying service at a provider that specializes on text groups,
individual.net does a decent job. If you're just reading and not
posting, news.readfreenews.net isn't bad either, and is free.
Michael Bednarek
2008-07-03 06:40:19 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 02 Jul 2008 20:46:24 -0400, "(PeteCresswell)" wrote in
Post by (PeteCresswell)
What do they do besides deal with very high volume?
e.g. If I wanted to keep reading alt.mountain-bike now that
Verizon has dropped all the alt. groups - and I didn't want to
use GoogleGroups - and I didn't want to hook into another news
group server - what's the news group server functionality that
would prevent me from running my own news group server software
on my own PC and just accumulating alt.Mountain-Bike traffic?
[adding to DevilsPGD response]

1) Are you fully aware what a "news server" is? Do you have, and are you
familiar with, the software for such a server?

2) How do you think the traffic for newsgroups would arrive at your
server?

Your two phrases ( 1. I didn't want to hook into another news group
server; 2. running my own news group server) contradict each other.

As DevilsPGD wrote: you would probably be better off and it would be a
lot simpler if you found a free or inexpensive server for
alt.mountain-bike (and rec.bicycles.off-road).
--
Michael Bednarek http://mbednarek.com/ "POST NO BILLS"
(PeteCresswell)
2008-07-04 16:04:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael Bednarek
1) Are you fully aware what a "news server" is? Do you have, and are you
familiar with, the software for such a server?
2) How do you think the traffic for newsgroups would arrive at your
server?
Of course not - and I haven't got a clue.

That was the whole reason for the post.
--
PeteCresswell
Ralph Fox
2008-07-03 08:05:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by (PeteCresswell)
If I wanted to keep reading alt.mountain-bike now that
Verizon has dropped all the alt. groups - and I didn't want to
use GoogleGroups - and I didn't want to hook into another news
group server - what's the news group server functionality that
would prevent me from running my own news group server software
on my own PC and just accumulating alt.Mountain-Bike traffic?
Ways your own newsgroup server can accumulate alt.Mountain-Bike traffic ...

1. Your server can hook into another newsgroup server.
There are two options...
1.1 Get a client account on another newsgroup server.
Your newsgroup server uses a 'suck' feed.
1.2 Get a server-to-server peering agreement with another
newsgroup server.

But if you don't want to hook into another newsgroup server...

2. You can post to your own server and accumulate your own posts.
You won't see anyone else's posts on your newsgroup server.
Other people won't see your posts on their newsgroup servers.


3. You can allow other people to post using your newsgroup server.
Note: if you are not hooking into another newsgroup server, then
other people may not want to post on your server. Their posts
would not be seen on other newsgroup servers, only by you.
--
Cheers,
Ralph
Marc Wilson
2008-07-03 08:47:26 UTC
Permalink
[Default] In alt.usenet.offline-reader.forte-agent, (Ralph Fox) wrote in
Post by Ralph Fox
Post by (PeteCresswell)
If I wanted to keep reading alt.mountain-bike now that
Verizon has dropped all the alt. groups - and I didn't want to
use GoogleGroups - and I didn't want to hook into another news
group server - what's the news group server functionality that
would prevent me from running my own news group server software
on my own PC and just accumulating alt.Mountain-Bike traffic?
Ways your own newsgroup server can accumulate alt.Mountain-Bike traffic ...
1. Your server can hook into another newsgroup server.
There are two options...
1.1 Get a client account on another newsgroup server.
Your newsgroup server uses a 'suck' feed.
1.2 Get a server-to-server peering agreement with another
newsgroup server.
But if you don't want to hook into another newsgroup server...
2. You can post to your own server and accumulate your own posts.
You won't see anyone else's posts on your newsgroup server.
Other people won't see your posts on their newsgroup servers.
3. You can allow other people to post using your newsgroup server.
Note: if you are not hooking into another newsgroup server, then
other people may not want to post on your server. Their posts
would not be seen on other newsgroup servers, only by you.
I do run my own news-server, but for different reasons. It's a function
of my mailserver, and it allows me to suck down the feeds that I want at
regular intervals (I still have to click on "get new headers" to pull
items into Agent, but it's pulling them across a GHz ethernet for a
total distance of about 12 feet, so it's quite sprightly).

It also allows me to do some post-download processing: there are scripts
that run when retrieving news articles that e.g. delete anything posted
to > 2 groups, delete anything crossposted to certain groups, and flag
up articles posted via Google groups or via certain hosts that have a
very high spam content.

There's a free version for home use, called Mailtraq4free, which will do
all of the above and give you a mailserver with up to 4 mailboxes.
--
Marc

I went on a diet, swore off drinking and heavy eating, and in fourteen
days I lost two weeks. - Joe E. Lewis
agent.user
2008-07-03 10:33:57 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 03 Jul 2008 09:47:26 +0100 'Marc Wilson'
Post by Marc Wilson
[Default] In alt.usenet.offline-reader.forte-agent, (Ralph Fox) wrote in
Post by Ralph Fox
Post by (PeteCresswell)
If I wanted to keep reading alt.mountain-bike now that
Verizon has dropped all the alt. groups - and I didn't want to
use GoogleGroups - and I didn't want to hook into another news
group server - what's the news group server functionality that
would prevent me from running my own news group server software
on my own PC and just accumulating alt.Mountain-Bike traffic?
Ways your own newsgroup server can accumulate alt.Mountain-Bike traffic ...
1. Your server can hook into another newsgroup server.
There are two options...
1.1 Get a client account on another newsgroup server.
Your newsgroup server uses a 'suck' feed.
1.2 Get a server-to-server peering agreement with another
newsgroup server.
But if you don't want to hook into another newsgroup server...
2. You can post to your own server and accumulate your own posts.
You won't see anyone else's posts on your newsgroup server.
Other people won't see your posts on their newsgroup servers.
3. You can allow other people to post using your newsgroup server.
Note: if you are not hooking into another newsgroup server, then
other people may not want to post on your server. Their posts
would not be seen on other newsgroup servers, only by you.
I do run my own news-server, but for different reasons. It's a function
of my mailserver, and it allows me to suck down the feeds that I want at
regular intervals (I still have to click on "get new headers" to pull
items into Agent, but it's pulling them across a GHz ethernet for a
total distance of about 12 feet, so it's quite sprightly).
It also allows me to do some post-download processing: there are scripts
that run when retrieving news articles that e.g. delete anything posted
to > 2 groups, delete anything crossposted to certain groups, and flag
up articles posted via Google groups or via certain hosts that have a
very high spam content.
There's a free version for home use, called Mailtraq4free, which will do
all of the above and give you a mailserver with up to 4 mailboxes.
I think you are referring to a *local* e-mail/newsserver. When you
send an e-mail through it, the e-mail still goes through your ISPs
e-mail server for distribution. Is that right?
Marc Wilson
2008-07-05 14:11:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by agent.user
On Thu, 03 Jul 2008 09:47:26 +0100 'Marc Wilson'
Post by Marc Wilson
[Default] In alt.usenet.offline-reader.forte-agent, (Ralph Fox) wrote in
Post by Ralph Fox
Post by (PeteCresswell)
If I wanted to keep reading alt.mountain-bike now that
Verizon has dropped all the alt. groups - and I didn't want to
use GoogleGroups - and I didn't want to hook into another news
group server - what's the news group server functionality that
would prevent me from running my own news group server software
on my own PC and just accumulating alt.Mountain-Bike traffic?
Ways your own newsgroup server can accumulate alt.Mountain-Bike traffic ...
1. Your server can hook into another newsgroup server.
There are two options...
1.1 Get a client account on another newsgroup server.
Your newsgroup server uses a 'suck' feed.
1.2 Get a server-to-server peering agreement with another
newsgroup server.
But if you don't want to hook into another newsgroup server...
2. You can post to your own server and accumulate your own posts.
You won't see anyone else's posts on your newsgroup server.
Other people won't see your posts on their newsgroup servers.
3. You can allow other people to post using your newsgroup server.
Note: if you are not hooking into another newsgroup server, then
other people may not want to post on your server. Their posts
would not be seen on other newsgroup servers, only by you.
I do run my own news-server, but for different reasons. It's a function
of my mailserver, and it allows me to suck down the feeds that I want at
regular intervals (I still have to click on "get new headers" to pull
items into Agent, but it's pulling them across a GHz ethernet for a
total distance of about 12 feet, so it's quite sprightly).
It also allows me to do some post-download processing: there are scripts
that run when retrieving news articles that e.g. delete anything posted
to > 2 groups, delete anything crossposted to certain groups, and flag
up articles posted via Google groups or via certain hosts that have a
very high spam content.
There's a free version for home use, called Mailtraq4free, which will do
all of the above and give you a mailserver with up to 4 mailboxes.
I think you are referring to a *local* e-mail/newsserver. When you
send an e-mail through it, the e-mail still goes through your ISPs
e-mail server for distribution. Is that right?
No. My mail server looks up the domain of the recipient and finds their
MX records, and then sends mail directly to their MX hosts. Only if
that fails will it fall back to my ISPs smart-host. I think it's used
it twice in over two years.
--
Marc

"..proper sport being football and cricket and nothing else. Everything else is a game
or a pastime. Except golf. Which is an abomination, encouraging bloated publicans
and estate agents to waddle about a twee and artificial landscape in lurid tight-fitting
patel jumpers like pregnant Teletubbies." Linda Smith, on sport.
agent.user
2008-07-07 22:11:00 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 05 Jul 2008 15:11:30 +0100 'Marc Wilson'
Post by Marc Wilson
Post by agent.user
On Thu, 03 Jul 2008 09:47:26 +0100 'Marc Wilson'
Post by Marc Wilson
[Default] In alt.usenet.offline-reader.forte-agent, (Ralph Fox) wrote in
Post by Ralph Fox
Post by (PeteCresswell)
If I wanted to keep reading alt.mountain-bike now that
Verizon has dropped all the alt. groups - and I didn't want to
use GoogleGroups - and I didn't want to hook into another news
group server - what's the news group server functionality that
would prevent me from running my own news group server software
on my own PC and just accumulating alt.Mountain-Bike traffic?
Ways your own newsgroup server can accumulate alt.Mountain-Bike traffic ...
1. Your server can hook into another newsgroup server.
There are two options...
1.1 Get a client account on another newsgroup server.
Your newsgroup server uses a 'suck' feed.
1.2 Get a server-to-server peering agreement with another
newsgroup server.
But if you don't want to hook into another newsgroup server...
2. You can post to your own server and accumulate your own posts.
You won't see anyone else's posts on your newsgroup server.
Other people won't see your posts on their newsgroup servers.
3. You can allow other people to post using your newsgroup server.
Note: if you are not hooking into another newsgroup server, then
other people may not want to post on your server. Their posts
would not be seen on other newsgroup servers, only by you.
I do run my own news-server, but for different reasons. It's a function
of my mailserver, and it allows me to suck down the feeds that I want at
regular intervals (I still have to click on "get new headers" to pull
items into Agent, but it's pulling them across a GHz ethernet for a
total distance of about 12 feet, so it's quite sprightly).
It also allows me to do some post-download processing: there are scripts
that run when retrieving news articles that e.g. delete anything posted
to > 2 groups, delete anything crossposted to certain groups, and flag
up articles posted via Google groups or via certain hosts that have a
very high spam content.
There's a free version for home use, called Mailtraq4free, which will do
all of the above and give you a mailserver with up to 4 mailboxes.
I think you are referring to a *local* e-mail/newsserver. When you
send an e-mail through it, the e-mail still goes through your ISPs
e-mail server for distribution. Is that right?
No. My mail server looks up the domain of the recipient and finds their
MX records, and then sends mail directly to their MX hosts. Only if
that fails will it fall back to my ISPs smart-host. I think it's used
it twice in over two years.
And are you using Mailtraq4free to do this?
If so, is that the free version or payware version?

I'm looking for a mail server to do exactly that ...bypass
my ISP's server.

TIA
(PeteCresswell)
2008-07-07 23:23:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by agent.user
I'm looking for a mail server to do exactly that ...bypass
my ISP's server.
That gets to the heart of my question: if one doesn't get traffic
from a server (i.e. one makes their own server) where do they
get it from?

Are there just postings flying around out there and part of the
servers functionality is to snag them as they go by?

Probably not... but it seems like there has tb some kind of
relationship with some other entity.... Paid?
--
PeteCresswell
DevilsPGD
2008-07-08 00:36:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by (PeteCresswell)
Post by agent.user
I'm looking for a mail server to do exactly that ...bypass
my ISP's server.
That gets to the heart of my question: if one doesn't get traffic
from a server (i.e. one makes their own server) where do they
get it from?
Another NNTP server. This is called "peering".

In an ideal world, anyway, each NNTP server operator's goal is to set up
peering with as many different peering partners as is reasonable. Each
server is responsible for not only accepting messages from partners, but
also sharing received messages with partners. In this way, at least in
theory, no one server is reliant on any one other server, and everyone
involved both contributes and receives benefit.

Skip ahead a few years into the real world, it's a lot more complex and
chances are that non one will peer with you if you just plan on carrying
a couple groups unless you're generating substantial local content too.

Now you may be able to arrange to pay for peering, but it will cost you
more then just buying an account to an NSP or two and using someone
else's services.
Marc Wilson
2008-07-08 18:02:34 UTC
Permalink
[Default] In alt.usenet.offline-reader.forte-agent, (DevilsPGD) wrote in
Post by DevilsPGD
Post by (PeteCresswell)
Post by agent.user
I'm looking for a mail server to do exactly that ...bypass
my ISP's server.
That gets to the heart of my question: if one doesn't get traffic
from a server (i.e. one makes their own server) where do they
get it from?
Another NNTP server. This is called "peering".
In an ideal world, anyway, each NNTP server operator's goal is to set up
peering with as many different peering partners as is reasonable. Each
server is responsible for not only accepting messages from partners, but
also sharing received messages with partners. In this way, at least in
theory, no one server is reliant on any one other server, and everyone
involved both contributes and receives benefit.
Skip ahead a few years into the real world, it's a lot more complex and
chances are that non one will peer with you if you just plan on carrying
a couple groups unless you're generating substantial local content too.
Now you may be able to arrange to pay for peering, but it will cost you
more then just buying an account to an NSP or two and using someone
else's services.
Yeah. My newsserver is a "pseudo" server; I have no peering
arrangements, I just download from a paid service (I use individual.net
at €10/year, as I don't need binaries) and re-serve locally.

I also have some local groups that are private to the company or for
clients.

The advantages for me are (1) the news is collected every few minutes
and (2) I can control what groups are available inside the company
firewall.
--
Marc

Market Forces, n: A simple and elegant mechanism whereby the natural principle that gave
rise to herpes, the liver fluke and amoebic dysentery is applied to human society. ( Sam Dodsworth)
(PeteCresswell)
2008-07-08 22:58:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by DevilsPGD
In an ideal world, anyway, each NNTP server operator's goal is to set up
peering with as many different peering partners as is reasonable. Each
server is responsible for not only accepting messages from partners, but
also sharing received messages with partners. In this way, at least in
theory, no one server is reliant on any one other server, and everyone
involved both contributes and receives benefit.
Skip ahead a few years into the real world, it's a lot more complex and
chances are that non one will peer with you if you just plan on carrying
a couple groups unless you're generating substantial local content too.
That makes it jell for me.

Basically, what I was proposing was becoming a parasite on the
system: taking value from it, but not giving anything back.
--
PeteCresswell
agent.user
2008-07-08 01:05:23 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 07 Jul 2008 19:23:52 -0400 '(PeteCresswell)'
Post by (PeteCresswell)
Post by agent.user
I'm looking for a mail server to do exactly that ...bypass
my ISP's server.
That gets to the heart of my question: if one doesn't get traffic
from a server (i.e. one makes their own server) where do they
get it from?
Are there just postings flying around out there and part of the
servers functionality is to snag them as they go by?
Probably not... but it seems like there has tb some kind of
relationship with some other entity.... Paid?
Since my previous posting I've been reading up on the Mailtraq4
website about outgoing mail (SMTP). Mailtraq4 can be set up to
operate like its own mail server to use instead of an ISP's mail
server. It does this by doing its own MX resolution and this tells
it where to send the e-mails to.

That's pretty much what Marc described earlier.
Benefits are that you get e-mails distributed faster (probably).

Incoming e-mails are routed according to the MX resolution tables.
If you have Mailtraq4 configured to be a POP server, then e-mails
will come to you instead of to your ISP's POP server.
You may also have to modify tables elsewhere at your ISP.

I'm mainly interested in the SMTP features.
Marc Wilson
2008-07-08 18:08:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by agent.user
On Mon, 07 Jul 2008 19:23:52 -0400 '(PeteCresswell)'
Post by (PeteCresswell)
Post by agent.user
I'm looking for a mail server to do exactly that ...bypass
my ISP's server.
That gets to the heart of my question: if one doesn't get traffic
from a server (i.e. one makes their own server) where do they
get it from?
Are there just postings flying around out there and part of the
servers functionality is to snag them as they go by?
Probably not... but it seems like there has tb some kind of
relationship with some other entity.... Paid?
Since my previous posting I've been reading up on the Mailtraq4
website about outgoing mail (SMTP). Mailtraq4 can be set up to
operate like its own mail server to use instead of an ISP's mail
server. It does this by doing its own MX resolution and this tells
it where to send the e-mails to.
That's pretty much what Marc described earlier.
Benefits are that you get e-mails distributed faster (probably).
Incoming e-mails are routed according to the MX resolution tables.
If you have Mailtraq4 configured to be a POP server, then e-mails
will come to you instead of to your ISP's POP server.
You may also have to modify tables elsewhere at your ISP.
The main thing you need to modify is the DNS.

Assuming you own your own domain, you'll need to be able to set up MX
records in the DNS for your domain.

You also need either a static IP, or a dynamic DNS service.

If you want to send SMTP mail, bypassing your ISP, you also ideally need
your ISP to set up a PTR record that matches the HELO used by your
server.

If your machine is not permanently connected, you should also have a
backup MX service; you can use your ISP's server for this, or the server
of the domain registrar if this is different.
Post by agent.user
I'm mainly interested in the SMTP features.
If you don't own a domain, it's more tricky- but you can set up Mailtraq
to download mail from external POP servers as well, and then treat it as
though it arrived by SMTP. The downside of this is that the envelope
information is lost, unless your ISP has Clue, and has implemented the
*ENV extensions.
--
Marc

A clever man commits no minor blunders." (Johann Wolfgang von
Goethe)
Marc Wilson
2008-07-08 18:03:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by agent.user
On Sat, 05 Jul 2008 15:11:30 +0100 'Marc Wilson'
Post by Marc Wilson
Post by agent.user
On Thu, 03 Jul 2008 09:47:26 +0100 'Marc Wilson'
Post by Marc Wilson
[Default] In alt.usenet.offline-reader.forte-agent, (Ralph Fox) wrote in
Post by Ralph Fox
Post by (PeteCresswell)
If I wanted to keep reading alt.mountain-bike now that
Verizon has dropped all the alt. groups - and I didn't want to
use GoogleGroups - and I didn't want to hook into another news
group server - what's the news group server functionality that
would prevent me from running my own news group server software
on my own PC and just accumulating alt.Mountain-Bike traffic?
Ways your own newsgroup server can accumulate alt.Mountain-Bike traffic ...
1. Your server can hook into another newsgroup server.
There are two options...
1.1 Get a client account on another newsgroup server.
Your newsgroup server uses a 'suck' feed.
1.2 Get a server-to-server peering agreement with another
newsgroup server.
But if you don't want to hook into another newsgroup server...
2. You can post to your own server and accumulate your own posts.
You won't see anyone else's posts on your newsgroup server.
Other people won't see your posts on their newsgroup servers.
3. You can allow other people to post using your newsgroup server.
Note: if you are not hooking into another newsgroup server, then
other people may not want to post on your server. Their posts
would not be seen on other newsgroup servers, only by you.
I do run my own news-server, but for different reasons. It's a function
of my mailserver, and it allows me to suck down the feeds that I want at
regular intervals (I still have to click on "get new headers" to pull
items into Agent, but it's pulling them across a GHz ethernet for a
total distance of about 12 feet, so it's quite sprightly).
It also allows me to do some post-download processing: there are scripts
that run when retrieving news articles that e.g. delete anything posted
to > 2 groups, delete anything crossposted to certain groups, and flag
up articles posted via Google groups or via certain hosts that have a
very high spam content.
There's a free version for home use, called Mailtraq4free, which will do
all of the above and give you a mailserver with up to 4 mailboxes.
I think you are referring to a *local* e-mail/newsserver. When you
send an e-mail through it, the e-mail still goes through your ISPs
e-mail server for distribution. Is that right?
No. My mail server looks up the domain of the recipient and finds their
MX records, and then sends mail directly to their MX hosts. Only if
that fails will it fall back to my ISPs smart-host. I think it's used
it twice in over two years.
And are you using Mailtraq4free to do this?
If so, is that the free version or payware version?
I'm looking for a mail server to do exactly that ...bypass
my ISP's server.
I'm actually using the full paid version, as I'm not a "home" user; in
fact, among other things I'm a Mailtraq reseller. But I've set up the
"4Free" variant for some friends and relatives.

http://tinyurl.com/5uxhth for more info.
--
Marc

"There is no cause so right that one cannot find a fool
following it." - Niven
Robert Neville
2008-07-03 13:21:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by (PeteCresswell)
What do they do besides deal with very high volume?
e.g. If I wanted to keep reading alt.mountain-bike now that
Verizon has dropped all the alt. groups - and I didn't want to
use GoogleGroups - and I didn't want to hook into another news
group server - what's the news group server functionality that
would prevent me from running my own news group server software
on my own PC and just accumulating alt.Mountain-Bike traffic?
If you want to run your own server, the software is freely available. All you
need is a Linux box and a connection to the internet so people can reach you. I
haven't check recently, but there may even be windows software available or you
could run a linux virtual machine.

It gets a little harder if you want to share news postings witho ther servers,
but you said you didn't want to do that...
G. Morgan
2008-07-03 20:12:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Robert Neville
If you want to run your own server, the software is freely available. All you
need is a Linux box and a connection to the internet so people can reach you. I
haven't check recently, but there may even be windows software available or you
could run a linux virtual machine.
There is also SurgeNews for Windows.
--
-G

Eliminate Googletards - http://www.improve-usenet.org/
Marc Wilson
2008-07-05 14:17:20 UTC
Permalink
[Default] In alt.usenet.offline-reader.forte-agent, (Robert Neville)
Post by Robert Neville
Post by (PeteCresswell)
What do they do besides deal with very high volume?
e.g. If I wanted to keep reading alt.mountain-bike now that
Verizon has dropped all the alt. groups - and I didn't want to
use GoogleGroups - and I didn't want to hook into another news
group server - what's the news group server functionality that
would prevent me from running my own news group server software
on my own PC and just accumulating alt.Mountain-Bike traffic?
If you want to run your own server, the software is freely available. All you
need is a Linux box and a connection to the internet so people can reach you. I
haven't check recently, but there may even be windows software available...
Www.mailtraq.com - there's a free version for home use.

There are others as well.
--
Marc

A mind's reach should exceed its grasp or what's a metaphor?
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