Alternatives to Forte Agent?

Post by c***@email.com
Just thinking for the future - if Forte is no longer developing Agent, what are good
alternative newsreaders/email programs in case a switch is needed.

I can't see much need to switch newsreaders, since the NNTP protocol
is almost certainly moribund now and won't get any significant
changes.

Email programs are rather a matter of choice. I moved to Apple Mail
when I split ways with Windows, but there are loads out there.

Post by c***@email.com
Along with a good
software for the above, how well do these import newsgroups folders and email folders from
Agent. I have a lot of stored email information in various folders that, if I switch, I
would want to import the folder for use in the new software.

Agent can export its folders (one at a time) to standard Unix
message/mailbox type files, so most mail programs should be able to
slurp them in. File/Save Messages As.

Cheers - Jaimie

--
207 BC: Chrysippus, Greek stoic philosopher, is believed to have died of
laughter after watching his drunken donkey attempt to eat figs.

drek

2011-12-28 01:56:32 UTC

Post by Jaimie Vandenbergh

Post by c***@email.com
Just thinking for the future - if Forte is no longer developing Agent, what are good
alternative newsreaders/email programs in case a switch is needed.

I can't see much need to switch newsreaders, since the NNTP protocol
is almost certainly moribund now and won't get any significant
changes.

That's really the final answer. What market is there in making keys for
locks that don't exist? The onus for meaningful improvement has been on
servers themselves for many years. Giganews claims over 10 million
broadband users a month so it's easy to see who is holding money for
development, not to mention the fact that significant changes would need
to be server-side anyway. Forte can't wag the dog.

At the bottom of it all is, partly, there are only so many ways to slice
and dice a text file. Binary Usenet never materialized but fortunately
yEnc provided the next-best in spite of the ponderous considerations and
false hopes that would have prevented it. I haven't looked at their
to-do list from 10 years back but there wasn't much more on it than that
to begin with.

The point is if any work remains to be done, it isn't by Forte.

What the pause may best answer is the sharp criticism they've received
in this group over the years at every major release claiming it was
unwarranted. The question of development really answers itself.

Add in accusations of feature bloat in spite of the fact_they actually
work_and alternatives are probably found in YouTube, basket weaving, or
some other pursuit. Maybe there's no money in e-mail but other than that
ist's no wonder the road map doesn't include whistling Dixie.

Regards,

Arno Martens

2011-12-28 14:49:24 UTC

Post by Jaimie Vandenbergh
I can't see much need to switch newsreaders, since the NNTP protocol
is almost certainly moribund now and won't get any significant
changes.

[ ... ]

Over the weekend I talked with someone about eMail and told him that I
had been using Agent for 14 years although it was designed for usenet,
which is supposed to be dying.

He countered that nzb with usenet is the cats meow for getting English
language movies from Russia a week before they are released to North
American theaters.

I don't watch movies but maybe for SWMBO's sake I should find a tutorial
on nzb and study up on it.
;->)

--
Cheers,
Arno

Marc Wilson

2011-12-28 15:39:56 UTC

In alt.usenet.offline-reader.forte-agent, (Arno Martens) wrote in

Post by Arno Martens
Over the weekend I talked with someone about eMail and told him that I
had been using Agent for 14 years although it was designed for usenet,
which is supposed to be dying.
He countered that nzb with usenet is the cats meow for getting English
language movies from Russia a week before they are released to North
American theaters.
I don't watch movies but maybe for SWMBO's sake I should find a tutorial
on nzb and study up on it.
;->)

And thereby help to ensure that films will no longer be made, except for
vast balls of crap that will make so much money that they can afford the
parasites.

Smart.

--
Marc

There's nothing like good food, good wine, and a bad girl. - fortune cookie

Geoff

2011-12-28 22:07:13 UTC

Post by Marc Wilson
In alt.usenet.offline-reader.forte-agent, (Arno Martens) wrote in

And thereby help to ensure that films will no longer be made, except for
vast balls of crap that will make so much money that they can afford the
parasites.
Smart.

Vast balls of crap are made regardless of whether parasites exist or
not.

The parasites are a very small minority, certainly less than 1% of the
viewing public. Losses due to parasitic viewing are vastly over
estimated by the producers because they have a vested interest.

Marc Wilson

2011-12-28 22:44:58 UTC

In alt.usenet.offline-reader.forte-agent, (Geoff) wrote in

Post by Marc Wilson
In alt.usenet.offline-reader.forte-agent, (Arno Martens) wrote in

And thereby help to ensure that films will no longer be made, except for
vast balls of crap that will make so much money that they can afford the
parasites.
Smart.

Vast balls of crap are made regardless of whether parasites exist or
not.
The parasites are a very small minority, certainly less than 1% of the
viewing public. Losses due to parasitic viewing are vastly over
estimated by the producers because they have a vested interest.

Doesn't make it right- any more than "well, it's only one bottle" makes
roadside littering OK.

--
Marc

Competence, like truth, beauty and contact lenses, is in the eye of the beholder.
- Laurence J. Peter

Geoff

2011-12-29 04:43:18 UTC

Post by Marc Wilson
Doesn't make it right- any more than "well, it's only one bottle" makes
roadside littering OK.

I don't disagree at all. I also don't practice leeching. I simply
don't acknowledge a causal relationship between leeching and
entertainment production quality.

TV production gets revenue from sponsorships; cable from subscribers;
film, from the theatergoers. The production is paid for before the
product is shipped, the only determiners of quality is the money that
went into the production and the talent/skill of the people involved.

Marc Wilson

2011-12-29 09:52:55 UTC

In alt.usenet.offline-reader.forte-agent, (Geoff) wrote in

Post by Marc Wilson
Doesn't make it right- any more than "well, it's only one bottle" makes
roadside littering OK.

I don't disagree at all. I also don't practice leeching. I simply
don't acknowledge a causal relationship between leeching and
entertainment production quality.

What's more worrying than the real losses, small though they may be, is
that it provides a platform for vested interests to enact things like
DMCA and SOPA.

Post by Geoff
TV production gets revenue from sponsorships; cable from subscribers;
film, from the theatergoers. The production is paid for before the
product is shipped, the only determiners of quality is the money that
went into the production and the talent/skill of the people involved.

True- but people don't invest in films to *lose* money (unless it's a
tax dodge).

I don't care that much about the blockbuster films- they're mostly
shite. What worries me is the ones that barely get made as it is.

--
Marc

Are you still here? The message is over. Shoo! Go away!

Jaimie Vandenbergh

2011-12-29 10:05:38 UTC

[Default] On Thu, 29 Dec 2011 09:52:55 +0000, Marc Wilson

Post by Marc Wilson
In alt.usenet.offline-reader.forte-agent, (Geoff) wrote in

Post by Marc Wilson
Doesn't make it right- any more than "well, it's only one bottle" makes
roadside littering OK.

I don't disagree at all. I also don't practice leeching. I simply
don't acknowledge a causal relationship between leeching and
entertainment production quality.

What's more worrying than the real losses, small though they may be, is
that it provides a platform for vested interests to enact things like
DMCA and SOPA.

It's just an excuse - if there wasn't the convenient "piracy"
scapegoat, they'd just enact them as more anti-terror laws.

Cheers - Jaimie

--
"Once you adopt the unix paradigm, the variants cease to be a problem - you
bitch, of course, but that's because bitching is fun, unlike M$ OS's, where
bitching is required to keep your head from exploding." - S Stremler in afc

drek

2011-12-30 00:40:15 UTC

Post by Marc Wilson
In alt.usenet.offline-reader.forte-agent, (Geoff) wrote in

Post by Marc Wilson
In alt.usenet.offline-reader.forte-agent, (Arno Martens) wrote in

<snip>

Post by Arno Martens
I don't watch movies but maybe for SWMBO's sake I should find a tutorial
on nzb and study up on it.
;->)

And thereby help to ensure that films will no longer be made, except for
vast balls of crap that will make so much money that they can afford the
parasites.
Smart.

Vast balls of crap are made regardless of whether parasites exist or
not.

Hey! I saw Creature from the Black Lagoon. It wasn't all that bad.

From what little I've read of the industry the consideration is purely
revenue not artistry. Ask Orson Wells, he has lots to say on the
subject. In retrospect he concedes his years in the industry were wasted
because they would not permit productions simply because they were
excellent and that was long before any PC.

Producers aren't in the business of giving people what they need but
what they want. In the end people are voting in what gets produced.

Post by Geoff
The parasites are a very small minority, certainly less than 1% of the
viewing public. Losses due to parasitic viewing are vastly over
estimated by the producers because they have a vested interest.

Doesn't make it right- any more than "well, it's only one bottle" makes
roadside littering OK.

But that wasn't answering right or wrong so this changes the question.
Required reading prior to discussion should be Jack Valenti testimony
before the House committee in 1982.

With no less than Clint Eastwood watching his back he threw every flag
conceivable on the illegal play of VHS recording equipment. American
flag, rape, righteousness, GNP--oh the humanity! I was ready to grab a
pitch fork and noose myself.

Then some smartass asked Valenti if he used them himself. I won't spoil
the ending but a transcript is available here.
http://cryptome.org/hrcw-hear.htm

The basic fallicy of the whole argument is the guy ripping off 20 videos
would have given the industry 400 bucks instead. I don't think the MPAA
even believe that themselves. Not to mention the fact they outlived VHS.

Back to the original question though if binaries and file sharing are
ruled out what alternative is there to Agent? Probably none because
there's nothing else that can do something to text that Agent can't.

A book is a book is a book.

Ralph Fox

2011-12-30 03:14:57 UTC

Post by drek
Back to the original question though if binaries and file sharing are
ruled out what alternative is there to Agent? Probably none because
there's nothing else that can do something to text that Agent can't.

❶ Agent can't display or post text which Unicode programs can
(Thunderbird, for example).

❷ Here is an example. You will see question marks in Agent.
You will see real text in Thunderbird and in Google groups.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

＂Ｊｕｓｔ　ｔｈｅ　ｐｌａｃｅ　ｆｏｒ　ａ　ｓｎａｒｋ！＂　ｔｈｅ　Ｂｅｌｌｍａｎ　ｃｒｉｅｄ，
ａｓ　ｈｅ　ｌａｎｄｅｄ　ｈｉｓ　ｃｒｅｗ　ｗｉｔｈ　ｃａｒｅ；
ｓｕｐｐｏｒｔｉｎｇ　ｅａｃｈ　ｍａｎ　ｏｎ　ｔｈｅ　ｔｏｐ　ｏｆ　ｔｈｅ　ｔｉｄｅ
Ｂｙ　ａ　ｆｉｎｇｅｒ　ｅｎｔｗｉｎｅｄ　ｉｎ　ｈｉｓ　ｈａｉｒ.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

--
Kind regards
Ralph

drek

2012-01-01 07:04:05 UTC

? Agent can't display or post text which Unicode programs can
(Thunderbird, for example).

Right you've pointed that out before. I don't remember examples of it
being an obstacle to any practical use in groups so it slips my mind.

? Here is an example. You will see question marks in Agent.
You will see real text in Thunderbird and in Google groups.

It is readable in Tbird. It could be the hanger is a worm-turned hangee
but if Lewis won't define terms it may be impossible to say. |-o

Thx,

Ralph Fox

2011-12-28 23:48:33 UTC

Is there a good reason why I should consider the claim "certainly
less than 1%" to be any more credible than the producers?

--
Kind regards
Ralph

Geoff

2011-12-29 05:59:37 UTC

Is there a good reason why I should consider the claim "certainly
less than 1%" to be any more credible than the producers?

Nope. Consider it apocryphal if you like. I make no pretence to
special knowledge. In informal conversations with several hundred
customers, acquaintances and others I have only met one who downloads
bootlegged or ripped entertainment. Most either have no need or no
desire to practice it. Of course, these are all adults. I can't speak
for their knowledge of what their kids were up to.

Robert Miles

2011-12-30 05:29:26 UTC

Is there a good reason why I should consider the claim "certainly
less than 1%" to be any more credible than the producers?

I'd restate that as you've only found one that will admit it.

Robert Miles

Robert Miles

2011-12-30 05:26:56 UTC

Is there a good reason why I should consider the claim "certainly
less than 1%" to be any more credible than the producers?

If the producers measure the leeches by the total price of what
they leech, and the measurement above is by the number of people,
you could easily believe both at once if the leeches download a
very large number of files each on average.

Robert Miles

Ralph Fox

2011-12-30 06:36:25 UTC

Is there a good reason why I should consider the claim "certainly
less than 1%" to be any more credible than the producers?

I really would like to see actual solid evidence of the source data.
Otherwise, any comparison may be GIGO ("Garbage In, Garbage Out").

--
Kind regards
Ralph

Geoff

2011-12-30 07:30:32 UTC

Is there a good reason why I should consider the claim "certainly
less than 1%" to be any more credible than the producers?

I really would like to see actual solid evidence of the source data.
Otherwise, any comparison may be GIGO ("Garbage In, Garbage Out").

The only references I have ever seen was "estimated losses". This is
the bean counters counting the beans they've never seen.

I don't know how they can claim to be able to separate the losses to
piracy vs the noise of seasonal/economical variation of sales.

68.25 percent of all statistics are made up on the spot. :)

Ralph Fox

2011-12-31 23:05:18 UTC

Post by Ralph Fox
I really would like to see actual solid evidence of the source data.
Otherwise, any comparison may be GIGO ("Garbage In, Garbage Out").

The only references I have ever seen was "estimated losses". This is
the bean counters counting the beans they've never seen.
I don't know how they can claim to be able to separate the losses to
piracy vs the noise of seasonal/economical variation of sales.
68.25 percent of all statistics are made up on the spot. :)

I think there is bogus statistics from both sides of the debate.
What each side says seems to come from which "buttons" they want
to push, not from any real objective data.

--
Kind regards
Ralph

Arno Martens

2011-12-29 23:11:40 UTC

Post by Arno Martens
I don't watch movies but maybe for SWMBO's sake I should find a tutorial
on nzb and study up on it.
;->)

And thereby help to ensure that films will no longer be made, except for
vast balls of crap that will make so much money that they can afford the
parasites.
Smart.

I thought you had been around long enough to recognise a winking smiley
when you see one.

--
Arno

drek

2011-12-30 00:16:11 UTC

<snip>

Post by drek
At the bottom of it all is, partly, there are only so many ways to slice
and dice a text file. Binary Usenet never materialized

[ ... ]
Over the weekend I talked with someone about eMail and told him that I
had been using Agent for 14 years although it was designed for usenet,
which is supposed to be dying.

If text Usenet still enjoys input from worthwhile contributors like Mary
Shafer (NASA) on even an occasional basis I am not aware of it. This
group is worth taking time away from everything else only because of
people like Ralph and others who actually know what they are talking
about. IOW there is actually something to be learned about the subject
and in this case there probably isn't a published alternative.

I think the question of an alternative to Agent is, in reality, a
question of whether there's an alternative to Usenet. Unfortunately as
an informational source that isn't true AFAICS although I admit to not
being very well read. The days when news groups used to be the first
thing that came to mind for answers to anything are long past.

If Usenet is dead Agent is a moot issue unless it handles some other
feed as well.

Post by Arno Martens
He countered that nzb with usenet is the cats meow for getting English
language movies from Russia a week before they are released to North
American theaters.
I don't watch movies but maybe for SWMBO's sake I should find a tutorial
on nzb and study up on it.
;->)

It could make you a hero! I rarely take time for a movie in or out of a
theatre but I regret putting off nzb as long as I did.

You didn't hear it from me but there's lots of good sources to find out
what's playing. I can't comment on Agent for nzb but the app to beat is
Alt.binz. It's almost insanely capable and in my experience rock solid.
Once configured it also makes the whole process of d/l, error checking,
selective par2 d/l, decompression, reassembly, and filing a one click
task. There's a pay version but the free one works for me.

alt.binaries.nzb-files.multimedia
http://www.binsearch.info/
http://www.altbinz.net/

Arno Martens

2011-12-31 00:13:55 UTC

Post by Arno Martens
Over the weekend I talked with someone about eMail and told him that I
had been using Agent for 14 years although it was designed for usenet,
which is supposed to be dying.

Yes, there are the usual 6 -7 known suspects that are supportive and
allow one to learn something. If repeated often enough, sometime it even
sinks in.

Post by Arno Martens
I don't watch movies but maybe for SWMBO's sake I should find a tutorial
on nzb and study up on it.
;->)

It could make you a hero! I rarely take time for a movie in or out of a
theatre but I regret putting off nzb as long as I did.
You didn't hear it from me but there's lots of good sources to find out
what's playing. I can't comment on Agent for nzb but the app to beat is
Alt.binz. It's almost insanely capable and in my experience rock solid.
Once configured it also makes the whole process of d/l, error checking,
selective par2 d/l, decompression, reassembly, and filing a one click
task. There's a pay version but the free one works for me.

That sounds good but most likely will never happen.
Before that I want to learn about CAD but have already problems getting
my head around the use (not the idea) of layers.

I am a visual learner and really should go to night school classes for
it but, there is always something else that crops up and is more
important. I also have not seen any good tutorials for CAD.

Thanks for the advise.

--
Regards,
Arno

drek

2012-01-01 00:33:58 UTC

Post by Arno Martens
Over the weekend I talked with someone about eMail and told him that I
had been using Agent for 14 years although it was designed for usenet,
which is supposed to be dying.

Yes, there are the usual 6 -7 known suspects that are supportive and
allow one to learn something. If repeated often enough, sometime it even
sinks in.

A long time ago I got into the habit of searching this group on Google
first and find it would be difficult to come up with a question that has
not already been answered here.

Post by Arno Martens
I don't watch movies but maybe for SWMBO's sake I should find a tutorial
on nzb and study up on it.
;->)

It could make you a hero! I rarely take time for a movie in or out of a
theatre but I regret putting off nzb as long as I did.

,snip>

Post by Arno Martens
That sounds good but most likely will never happen.

Guess I wouldn't make much of a salesman, can't even give stuff away.:)

Post by Arno Martens
Before that I want to learn about CAD but have already problems getting
my head around the use (not the idea) of layers.
I am a visual learner and really should go to night school classes for
it but, there is always something else that crops up and is more
important. I also have not seen any good tutorials for CAD.

My limited experience with it presented a learning curve that was very
nearly straight up. Especially in the beginning it seems like you need
to know everything before you can do anything and that didn't go away
quickly. Aside from having someone around to ask questions the main
requirement was putting in the hours. Like anything else it gets easier,
it just takes longer for that to happen.

(PeteCresswell)

2011-12-14 00:32:31 UTC

Post by c***@email.com
Just thinking for the future - if Forte is no longer developing Agent, what are good
alternative newsreaders/email programs in case a switch is needed. Along with a good
software for the above, how well do these import newsgroups folders and email folders from
Agent. I have a lot of stored email information in various folders that, if I switch, I
would want to import the folder for use in the new software.

Dunno from importing, but when I fooled around with Thunderbird
after putting it on the wife's laptop, it seemed to do everything
I wanted.

--
PeteCresswell

Martin

2011-12-14 09:44:56 UTC

Post by (PeteCresswell)

Dunno from importing, but when I fooled around with Thunderbird
after putting it on the wife's laptop, it seemed to do everything
I wanted.

Filtering takes more effort.

--
Martin

Melissa

2011-12-14 02:26:42 UTC

Post by c***@email.com
Just thinking for the future - if Forte is no longer developing
Agent, what are good alternative newsreaders/email programs in case
a switch is needed.

I've yet to find a single program that handles both email and news
equally well. Some can handle one or the other better than one or the
other, and some can handle both equally badly.

That said, I consider Agent a news reader, and would never use it for
email. For email, I prefer "TheBat": http://www.ritlabs.com/

[Note on TheBat: I've been using this email client since v1.x (it's
now up to v5.x). It's a very powerful email client, but I've learned
over the years to use a version slightly "behind the times" (they're
up to v5 now, but I'm still using v4), because in my opinion, they
usually release new versions before working out *all* the bleeding
edge bugs. There are people still happily using v2.x (I was one of
those until about a year ago - and frankly, could still be happy with
it - though v4 is working well for me now).]

Years ago, I was a faithful Agent user for news, but after my
disappointment in the v1 to v2 "upgrade", I gave up on Agent's
glacial development, and moved on to 40tude Dialog. If it weren't for
some stability issues on my latest Windows 7 installation, I'd still
be using Dialog - even though development on that ceased in 2005.

Though I still feel a few shortcomings in Agent, as long as it
remains stable, I'll continue to use it for news. I'm not interested
in binary news groups, so for text, I can be "happy enough" with it
for the time being.

Everyone has their preferences regarding just how they like their
email and/or news clients to work. There are still people who swear
by "Xnews", yet I've always hated Xnews. The same is true for many
other news readers - for Windows, Mac, and Linux (I've tried most of
them over the years). There's simply no accounting for tastes (mine
included! ;)).

There's a program I use for both archiving and converting email and
news formats - Mailbag Assistant: http://www.fookes.com/mailbag/

Mailbag Assistant is useful for archiving, and offers very versatile
and powerful search and parsing tools. It can also convert various
formats to various other formats.

[This post may look a bit different that my recent posts, because my
laptop just went into the shop for repair today. I'm now using a
temporary installation of Agent on an old computer. Haven't bothered
to set up my preferred signatures, etc.]

--
Melissa

Mike Trainor

2011-12-26 00:13:47 UTC

On Tue, 13 Dec 2011 18:26:42 -0800, Melissa

Post by Melissa
Everyone has their preferences regarding just how they like their
email and/or news clients to work. There are still people who swear
by "Xnews", yet I've always hated Xnews. The same is true for many
other news readers - for Windows, Mac, and Linux (I've tried most of
them over the years). There's simply no accounting for tastes (mine
included! ;)).

As I almost exclusively used a Sun till about 4 years ago, I used to
swear by 'trn'. (Never got slrn to work right!). But, among almost
all PC applications, the one I find most satisfactory is Agent. In
fact, it just seems to be 'trn' with a real GUI as far as news is
concerned. So, for news, Agent, as long as it compiles and runs,
is okay.

I do not like to mix clients. So, I have no need for mail capabilities
in a newreader.

mt

Randy

2011-12-26 16:14:15 UTC

Sun, 25 Dec 2011 19:13:47 -0500, in article

Post by Mike Trainor
I do not like to mix clients. So, I have no need for mail capabilities
in a newreader.

Do you need a newsreader that _excludes_ a mail
reader?

--
Forte Agent: 6.0/32.1186; Windows: 5.1
(Build 2600.xpsp_sp3_qfe.101209-1646 : Service Pack 3)

Jeffrey Kaplan

2011-12-14 03:03:13 UTC

IMO, Agent is still tops for usenet, particularly discussion groups.
Unless you need the two systems integrated, there's no need to move
away from Agent for usenet if you're still happy with it. For email,
take a look at Thunderbird.

I settled on Thunderbird because it was the closest I could find to the
way Agent works when I could no longer operate without IMAP.

--
Jeffrey Kaplan www.gordol.org
Double ROT13 encoded for your protection

Peter's Top 100 Things I'd Do If I Ever Became An Evil Overlord, #86.
I will make sure that my doomsday device is up to code and properly
grounded.

Nicetameetya

2011-12-14 03:24:04 UTC

[Default] On Wed, 14 Dec 2011 03:03:13 +0000, Jeffrey Kaplan

Post by Jeffrey Kaplan

IMO, Agent is still tops for usenet, particularly discussion groups.
Unless you need the two systems integrated, there's no need to move
away from Agent for usenet if you're still happy with it. For email,
take a look at Thunderbird.
I settled on Thunderbird because it was the closest I could find to the
way Agent works when I could no longer operate without IMAP.

Ditto. Horses for courses ...

Randy

2011-12-14 04:26:40 UTC

Post by Jeffrey Kaplan
I settled on Thunderbird because it was the closest I could find to the
way Agent works when I could no longer operate without IMAP.

Me too. If someone would implement
cross-post management, and make it so quotes
wrap properly all the time, it would be
almost perfect for me.

--
Forte Agent: 6.0/32.1186; Windows: 5.1
(Build 2600.xpsp_sp3_qfe.101209-1646 : Service
Pack 3)

G. Morgan

2011-12-28 01:32:48 UTC

Post by Jeffrey Kaplan
I settled on Thunderbird because it was the closest I could find to the
way Agent works when I could no longer operate without IMAP.

Me too. If someone would implement
cross-post management, and make it so quotes
wrap properly all the time, it would be
almost perfect for me.

I wonder if an extension can be written to make T-Bird behave more like
Agent?

Robert Miles

2011-12-30 05:42:46 UTC

Post by G. Morgan

Post by Jeffrey Kaplan
I settled on Thunderbird because it was the closest I could find to the
way Agent works when I could no longer operate without IMAP.

Me too. If someone would implement
cross-post management, and make it so quotes
wrap properly all the time, it would be
almost perfect for me.

I wonder if an extension can be written to make T-Bird behave more like
Agent?

Mozilla allows volunteers to sign up as developers of Thunderbird and
get the source code to help develop the next version. If you're a
good enough programmer, that should also allow you to write such an
extension.

Robert Miles

Ralph Fox

2011-12-30 19:12:18 UTC

Post by G. Morgan
I wonder if an extension can be written to make T-Bird behave more like
Agent?

A. Provided that some Agent feature *can* be implemented in a TB
extension, and doesn't need core back-end changes to TB.

B. If anyone is considering developing a TB extension, start here:
https://developer.mozilla.org/en/Extensions/Thunderbird

--
Kind regards
Ralph

c***@email.com

2011-12-14 05:17:47 UTC

Post by Jeffrey Kaplan

IMO, Agent is still tops for usenet, particularly discussion groups.
Unless you need the two systems integrated, there's no need to move
away from Agent for usenet if you're still happy with it. For email,
take a look at Thunderbird.
I settled on Thunderbird because it was the closest I could find to the
way Agent works when I could no longer operate without IMAP.

Thanks all for the comments/input.

charliec

Otto Jørgensen

2011-12-14 16:45:24 UTC

On Tue, 13 Dec 2011 11:42:10 -0800, in

If there are no future of Forte, I can also forget Newgroups as much
is to be found on mailgrups/list.

The large problem (?) is to covert the mail from Forte to an other
program.
But have I to do so, i will not die to have Forte as a historical
program on my PC.
As times goes all I have will bee readable in other programs that can
do what Forte Agent can't :(

--
Otto Jørgensen
http://www.bkwin.info/
All email is checked by NORTON

Ralph Fox

2011-12-14 17:18:25 UTC

Post by Otto JÃ¸rgensen
The large problem (?) is to covert the mail from Forte to an other
program.
But have I to do so, i will not die to have Forte as a historical
program on my PC.

It is not difficult to move emails back and forth between Agent and Thunderbird.

--
Kind regards
Ralph

Otto Jørgensen

2011-12-14 17:58:11 UTC

On Thu, 15 Dec 2011 06:18:25 +1300, in

Post by Otto JÃ¸rgensen
The large problem (?) is to covert the mail from Forte to an other
program.
But have I to do so, i will not die to have Forte as a historical
program on my PC.

It is not difficult to move emails back and forth between Agent and Thunderbird.

Maight be so, but as fat as far as I can see there is no discribtion
on how doeing this to most program as Outlooc, Live. Gmail etc

--
Otto Jørgensen
http://www.bkwin.info/
All email is checked by NORTON

Ralph Fox

2011-12-25 21:48:42 UTC

Post by Otto JÃ¸rgensen
On Thu, 15 Dec 2011 06:18:25 +1300, in

Post by Otto JÃ¸rgensen
The large problem (?) is to covert the mail from Forte to an other
program.
But have I to do so, i will not die to have Forte as a historical
program on my PC.

It is not difficult to move emails back and forth between Agent and Thunderbird.

Maight be so, but as fat as far as I can see there is no discribtion
on how doeing this to most program as Outlooc, Live. Gmail etc

A. "Outlooc, Live"

Microsoft (Outlook, WLM) are not like most programs. Many other
email programs (except Microsoft) can import MBOX format mail files
(which Agent calls a "Unix Message File").

To get an email folder from Agent into many email programs (except Microsoft)
1. Export the email folder from Agent as a "Unix Message File".
2. Import the "Unix Message File" (MBOX file) into the other email program

For step-by-step instructions with Thunderbird, see below.

B. "Gmail"

Gmail is not an email program on your computer. Gmail is a server.
To get your email from Agent into Gmail
1. First get your email into an email program like Thunderbird which
supports IMAP.
2. Then move the imported email into a Gmail IMAP folder.

To get an email folder from Agent into Thunderbird, here are step-by-step
instructions. (This expands on what Jeffrey Kaplan has already written.)

1. In Agent, select an email folder to export.
2. Select all the messages in the folder. This can be done as follows
2.1 Click on a single message in the message list pane
2.2 Press Ctrl+A
3. Use Agent's menu command
File >> Save Messages As"
with the following options

File Name: [no file extension, and named differently to
any of your existing Thunderbird email folders]

[ ] Append to existing file -- NOT CHECKED
[x] Save raw unformatted message -- CHECKED

File format
(•) Unix message file

Header fields to include
(•) All fields

4. In Thunderbird, go to
"Tools >> Account Settings >> Local Folders"
and make a note of the hard drive folder in the setting "Local directory".

5. Copy the saved file from #3 into the hard drive folder in #4.

6. When you restart Thunderbird, Thunderbird will import a folder containing
your emails from Agent.

At this stage I recommend moving all the imported emails into another
Thunderbird folder. This allows Thunderbird to add its own internal
headers for managing message status (e.g. read/unread) and tags (e.g.
important/personal/later). Without this, status and tags may still
appear to work, but may be lost if the folder's index is rebuilt.

7. To get your emails into Gmail, move them into a Gmail IMAP folder
(while you are online).

Note: import into "Local Folders" first. Don't try importing directly
from file into the IMAP account.

To get your Agent email into WLM, here are two ways...

I. I would suggest getting your Agent email into Gmail by following the
instructions above, then downloading your Agent email from Gmail into
WLM.

II. There is another way
• Save each individual email from Agent as a separate .eml file
(see instructions below).
This can be tedious when there are a lot of individual email messages.
• Then drag the .eml file from Windows Explorer and drop it into WLM.

To save an individual email from Agent as a .eml file

1. In Agent, select a single email. Do not select multiple emails.

2. Use Agent's menu command
File >> Save Messages As"
with the following options

File Name: should have a .eml extension

[ ] Append to existing file -- NOT CHECKED
[x] Save raw unformatted message -- CHECKED

File format
(•) No separator between messages <-- NOT THE SAME AS FOR UNIX MESSAGE FILES

Header fields to include
(•) All fields

--
Kind regards
Ralph

Robert Miles

2011-12-30 05:55:57 UTC

Post by Otto JÃ¸rgensen
On Thu, 15 Dec 2011 06:18:25 +1300, in

Post by Otto JÃ¸rgensen
The large problem (?) is to covert the mail from Forte to an other
program.
But have I to do so, i will not die to have Forte as a historical
program on my PC.

It is not difficult to move emails back and forth between Agent and Thunderbird.

Maight be so, but as fat as far as I can see there is no discribtion
on how doeing this to most program as Outlooc, Live. Gmail etc

[snip]

Is there a similar set of instructions for moving saved newsgroups posts
from one program to another? I have far more saved newsgroups posts
than email messages - exhausting the number my previous two
email/newsreader programs (WM, WLM) could handle is why I am no longer
using them.

Robert Miles

Robert Miles

Ralph Fox

2011-12-30 08:44:09 UTC

Post by Robert Miles
Is there a similar set of instructions for moving saved newsgroups posts
from one program to another? I have far more saved newsgroups posts
than email messages - exhausting the number my previous two
email/newsreader programs (WM, WLM) could handle is why I am no longer
using them.

The exact same instructions can be used to move newsgroup posts with
bodies into a "Local Folders" mail folder in Thunderbird. The final
result will be like what you would get if the posts had been dragged
and dropped from a Thunderbird newsgroup into the folder.

I know of no way to get newsgroups posts from Agent into a *newsgroup*
in Thunderbird.

--
Kind regards
Ralph

Jeffrey Kaplan

2011-12-14 23:51:49 UTC

Previously on alt.usenet.offline-reader.forte-agent, Otto Jørgensen

Post by Otto JÃ¸rgensen
The large problem (?) is to covert the mail from Forte to an other
program.
But have I to do so, i will not die to have Forte as a historical
program on my PC.
As times goes all I have will bee readable in other programs that can
do what Forte Agent can't :(

You can export Agent's message store to UNIX standard mbox files by
selecting the messages in a folder, then File \ Save Messages As... and
selecting the appropriate options. How to get them into your
replacement of choice is up to that software.

Thunderbird is easy. IIRC all that's needed is to drop the file
created by Agent, without a file extension, into TBird's data folder
and then start TBird. If you're using IMAP for your email, once you
have the messages in TBird, you can copy them into whatever mail folder
you want on the IMAP server and they'll upload.

--
Jeffrey Kaplan www.gordol.org
Double ROT13 encoded for your protection

"Here you will see the heart and soul of Babylon 5...also its spleen,
its kidneys, a veritable parade of internal organs." (Amb. Mollari,
B5 "The Quality of Mercy")

Wayne Garmil

2011-12-22 17:41:30 UTC

Post by c***@email.com
Just thinking for the future - if Forte is no longer developing Agent, what are good
alternative newsreaders/email programs in case a switch is needed.

I hope that day never comes. But I do know that software projects do
end eventually. Currently, I have not found a replacement for Agent
that I like. I have used Agent for news since the late 90's, and for
email since support for email was added (the earliest email I have
saved in an Agent email folder is from either 2001 or 2002).

I have tried Pan, which lots of people told me is just like Agent.
That is not true in my opinion, navigation in the newsgroups and
filtering (scoring) are very different. Yet I do know a lot of
people swear by Pan, so call this a different of user opinion.

I don't know of any other newsreader that has Agent's multi-server
support where more than one newsserver can feed into the same
newsgroup folder, all the others I have seen maintain separate folders
for each server. Pan is supposed to support this, but from I seen it
only populates the group from the first server it finds that contains
the group (not from every server configured like Agent can do).
Caveat: this could be my error in how I have Pan configured.

Currently, Agent fits my needs, and I plan to use it until it stops
working. I even use it on Linux using Wine to run the program.

Wayne

--
Never apply a Star Trek solution to a Babylon 5 problem.

Arno Martens

2011-12-22 20:29:35 UTC

Post by Wayne Garmil
I have used Agent for news since the late 90's, and for
email since support for email was added (the earliest email I have
saved in an Agent email folder is from either 2001 or 2002).

I have them from 1997 after a friend recommended FreeAgent as a better
eMail client than Eudora Pro, which I used at the time.

--
Cheers,
Arno

Randy

2011-12-23 11:02:36 UTC

Post by c***@email.com
Just thinking for the future - if Forte is no longer developing Agent, what are good
alternative newsreaders/email programs in case a switch is needed.

I hope that day never comes.

I would like to see a group of coders from
this group organize and develop Thunderbird's
newsreader.

--
Forte Agent: 6.0/32.1186; Windows: 5.1
(Build 2600.xpsp_sp3_qfe.101209-1646 : Service
Pack 3)

Cindy Ross

2011-12-23 12:21:00 UTC

Post by c***@email.com
Just thinking for the future - if Forte is no longer developing Agent, what are good
alternative newsreaders/email programs in case a switch is needed.

I hope that day never comes.

I would like to see a group of coders from
this group organize and develop Thunderbird's
newsreader.

I would like to see Agent go open source. (Speaking as a professional
C++ developer who would love to work on an open source Agent...)

Isis

2011-12-23 12:49:24 UTC

On Fri, 23 Dec 2011 07:21:00 -0500, Cindy Ross <***@us.ibm.com> wrote:

<snip>

Post by Cindy Ross
I would like to see Agent go open source. (Speaking as a professional
C++ developer who would love to work on an open source Agent...)

While you're waiting, why not fix Powerpost? It's driving me crazy.

(I'd do it myself if I could compile the .cpp's.)

Isis

"Often imitated, but never duplicated" <http://tiny.cc/Isis55423/

Cindy Ross

2011-12-23 13:09:58 UTC

Post by Cindy Ross
I would like to see Agent go open source. (Speaking as a professional
C++ developer who would love to work on an open source Agent...)

While you're waiting, why not fix Powerpost? It's driving me crazy.

Oh dear. Perhaps I made a mistake in posting that. I need to make very
clear right away that I am not soliciting suggestions on other projects
that I could work on.

I'm not looking to fill free time. I really don't have a lot of free
time. But I would gladly carve out a bit of my limited free time to
work on an open source Forte Agent if there was such a thing, simply
because I am specifically interested in enhancements to Forte Agent.

Post by Isis
(I'd do it myself if I could compile the .cpp's.)

(far off topic here, but there are free C++ compilers, and even MS
provides a free "Express" edition of their Visual Studio compiler.)

Isis

2011-12-23 13:45:19 UTC

Post by Cindy Ross
I would like to see Agent go open source. (Speaking as a professional
C++ developer who would love to work on an open source Agent...)

While you're waiting, why not fix Powerpost? It's driving me crazy.

Oh dear. Perhaps I made a mistake in posting that. I need to make very
clear right away that I am not soliciting suggestions on other projects
that I could work on.
I'm not looking to fill free time. I really don't have a lot of free
time. But I would gladly carve out a bit of my limited free time to
work on an open source Forte Agent if there was such a thing, simply
because I am specifically interested in enhancements to Forte Agent.

Post by Isis
(I'd do it myself if I could compile the .cpp's.)

(far off topic here, but there are free C++ compilers, and even MS
provides a free "Express" edition of their Visual Studio compiler.)

Sorry, I misread your intent.

I've tried the freebies, but they can't handle it. I think whenever MS adds
'Express' to something, e.g., Outlook, it's just to draw you in to purchase
something.

Maybe I'll try the VS10 free trial.

Thanks, anyway.

Isis

"Often imitated, but never duplicated" <http://tiny.cc/Isis55423/

Cindy Ross

2011-12-27 17:04:11 UTC

Post by Isis
I've tried the freebies, but they can't handle it. I think whenever MS adds
'Express' to something, e.g., Outlook, it's just to draw you in to purchase
something.

Actually, I have been pretty impressed with the Express versions of MS's
Visual Studio C++. (Although I have licenses to MSDN and Visual Studio,
I use Express a lot as I support a product that allows users to develop
their own extensions with Visual Studio or just Visual Studio Express.)

The Express version has the compiler as expected, and also the excellent
debugger. Of course they don't provide everything that the full product
provides, but I wouldn't expect them to. And yes, it is unfortunate
that it doesn't do what you need.

But it is definitely more than a worthless teaser, and for some folks
may be all they ever need. IMHO, it's excellent, for a "freebie".

Isis

2011-12-27 19:51:39 UTC

Post by Isis
I've tried the freebies, but they can't handle it. I think whenever MS adds
'Express' to something, e.g., Outlook, it's just to draw you in to purchase
something.

Actually, I have been pretty impressed with the Express versions of MS's
Visual Studio C++. (Although I have licenses to MSDN and Visual Studio,
I use Express a lot as I support a product that allows users to develop
their own extensions with Visual Studio or just Visual Studio Express.)
The Express version has the compiler as expected, and also the excellent
debugger. Of course they don't provide everything that the full product
provides, but I wouldn't expect them to. And yes, it is unfortunate
that it doesn't do what you need.
But it is definitely more than a worthless teaser, and for some folks
may be all they ever need. IMHO, it's excellent, for a "freebie".

That has always been MS's problem. Depending upon your needs, the Express versions
may satisfy. Too many were satisfied with Outlook Express, which didn't result in
many sales for Outlook. Result? No more OE.

"Often imitated, but never duplicated" <http://tiny.cc/Isis55423/

drek

2011-12-27 23:54:36 UTC

Post by Isis
I've tried the freebies, but they can't handle it. I think whenever MS adds
'Express' to something, e.g., Outlook, it's just to draw you in to purchase
something.

<snip>

Post by Cindy Ross
But it is definitely more than a worthless teaser, and for some folks
may be all they ever need. IMHO, it's excellent, for a "freebie".

The difficulty such a heroic leap encounters is Windows Mail. MS still
provides free, limited functionality for e-mail and (gag) news in Vista
and 7. That and the fact rewrite and renaming took 15 years. Even if
support had ended with OE it's hard to believe it took that long for MS
to get out of it's own way. It could have been done in XP.

I don't see any reason to believe MS Outlook was intended to compete for
shares among Outlook Express users, but rather from other PIMs. If
anything it might be seen as leverage for sales of Office because of
dependencies it has there.

If a freebie serves your needs that's almost certainly a feature and not
a bug.

Robert Miles

2011-12-30 06:18:30 UTC

[snip]

Post by Isis
I've tried the freebies, but they can't handle it. I think whenever MS adds
'Express' to something, e.g., Outlook, it's just to draw you in to purchase
something.
Maybe I'll try the VS10 free trial.
Thanks, anyway.
Isis

I've already tried the C++ portion of it for other purposes, and found
the following:

1. The section for compiling C instead of C++ is not included in the
free trial version.

2. The free trial version is somewhat limited in how big a data space
the program you're compiling can have.

Robert Miles

Isis

2011-12-30 11:23:33 UTC

Post by Robert Miles
[snip]

I've already tried the C++ portion of it for other purposes, and found
1. The section for compiling C instead of C++ is not included in the
free trial version.
2. The free trial version is somewhat limited in how big a data space
the program you're compiling can have.
Robert Miles

Missing MFC and Platform SDK.

The latter I could get, but the former?

Isis

"Often imitated, but never duplicated" <http://tiny.cc/Isis55423/

Geoff

2011-12-30 11:46:02 UTC

Post by Robert Miles
[snip]

Missing MFC and Platform SDK.
The latter I could get, but the former?

VS2010 Express specifically doesn't support MFC, you have to buy the
real deal and it isn't cheap, which is really stupid because Apple's
Xcode 4.2 which supports IOS and Mac OS X is $4.99 on the AppStore.

Cindy Ross

2011-12-30 22:34:47 UTC

Post by Isis
Missing MFC and Platform SDK.

Ah, MFC. I could see how that would be a severe limitation if one is
dealing with MFC dependent code. (I have never used MFC myself...)

Stephen Wolstenholme

2011-12-31 12:09:03 UTC

Post by Isis
Missing MFC and Platform SDK.

Ah, MFC. I could see how that would be a severe limitation if one is
dealing with MFC dependent code. (I have never used MFC myself...)

I can't think of anything in MFC that is a limitation. I have used MFC
ever since it was invented and I am not likely to change my ways now.

Steve

--
Neural network software applications, help and support.

Neural Network Software. http://www.npsl1.com
EasyNN-plus. Neural Networks plus. http://www.easynn.com
SwingNN. Forecast with Neural Networks. http://www.swingnn.com
JustNN. Just Neural Networks. http://www.justnn.com

h***@h-gee.co.uk

2011-12-31 18:44:35 UTC

Post by Isis
Missing MFC and Platform SDK.

Ah, MFC. I could see how that would be a severe limitation if one is
dealing with MFC dependent code. (I have never used MFC myself...)

I can't think of anything in MFC that is a limitation. I have used MFC
ever since it was invented and I am not likely to change my ways now.
Steve

Are we talking about alternatives in general or specific.

T-Bird cannot decode Yenc coded files so it's pretty useless for binary groups.

Can't get T-Bird to accept more than 2 email account on the same domain but with different
user names and email addresses unless I suddenly can't understand my native tongue of
English.

Last time I tried to play with T-Bird as a news reader it wouldn't leave the header but
kept insisting showing the picture on a binary photo group.

Tried downloading a binary with 18 sections and it wouldn't decode and needed another
program to handle this - too much hassle for news for me.

Sir Hugh of Bognor
--
I used to be an Egotistical Megalomaniac - but now I'm just perfect!

Hugh Gundersen
***@h-gee.co.uk

Get AVG Internet Protection
AVG Reseller <***@bognor-bill.com>
discounted software - renewals and upgrades

Bognor Regis, W.Sussex, England, UK

Ralph Fox

2011-12-31 23:56:23 UTC

Post by Isis
Missing MFC and Platform SDK.

Ah, MFC. I could see how that would be a severe limitation if one is
dealing with MFC dependent code. (I have never used MFC myself...)

I can't think of anything in MFC that is a limitation.

Portability? Let's say I need my app to run on a supercomputer. Go
here <http://i.top500.org/treemap> and select Stats Type = "Operating
system Family". Although, there are guides to porting apps by
converting MFC to wxWidgets or Qt.

Anyways, ISTM the previous poster was not describing MFC as a limitation.
Rather, the *lack* of MFC was a limitation in the free version of VS.

--
Kind regards
Ralph

Cindy Ross

2011-12-30 22:36:37 UTC

Post by Isis
Maybe I'll try the VS10 free trial.

1. The section for compiling C instead of C++ is not included in the
free trial version.

Oh, that is a bummer then. VS 2005 Express can definitely do C.

Post by Robert Miles
2. The free trial version is somewhat limited in how big a data space
the program you're compiling can have.

I didn't know that.

Geoff

2011-12-30 23:28:27 UTC

Post by Isis
Maybe I'll try the VS10 free trial.

1. The section for compiling C instead of C++ is not included in the
free trial version.

Oh, that is a bummer then. VS 2005 Express can definitely do C.

Post by Robert Miles
2. The free trial version is somewhat limited in how big a data space
the program you're compiling can have.

I didn't know that.

Eh? Trial version? I suppose so. But why deal with the trial versions
unless you can't use the Express version.

There is nothing wrong with VC++ 2010 Express's C compiler. The only
limitation is it won't target the 64 bit processors. It also doesn't
support ATL and MFC.

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/hs24szh9.aspx

Robert Miles

2011-12-31 00:55:13 UTC

Post by Isis
Maybe I'll try the VS10 free trial.

1. The section for compiling C instead of C++ is not included in the
free trial version.

Oh, that is a bummer then. VS 2005 Express can definitely do C.

Post by Robert Miles
2. The free trial version is somewhat limited in how big a data space
the program you're compiling can have.

I didn't know that.

Eh? Trial version? I suppose so. But why deal with the trial versions
unless you can't use the Express version.
There is nothing wrong with VC++ 2010 Express's C compiler. The only
limitation is it won't target the 64 bit processors. It also doesn't
support ATL and MFC.
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/hs24szh9.aspx

When I tried it with a small C program, it gave me an error message
saying that the C compiler section was missing. No processor selected.
But it's hard to tell if its instructions had problems and some other
method might find the C compiler.

The free trial version I found WAS the Express version.

Are you saying that some other 2010 Express version has a usable C
compiler? If so, which one?

Geoff

2011-12-31 03:01:51 UTC

On Fri, 30 Dec 2011 18:55:13 -0600, Robert Miles

Post by Isis
Maybe I'll try the VS10 free trial.

1. The section for compiling C instead of C++ is not included in the
free trial version.

Oh, that is a bummer then. VS 2005 Express can definitely do C.

Post by Robert Miles
2. The free trial version is somewhat limited in how big a data space
the program you're compiling can have.

I didn't know that.

Eh? Trial version? I suppose so. But why deal with the trial versions
unless you can't use the Express version.
There is nothing wrong with VC++ 2010 Express's C compiler. The only
limitation is it won't target the 64 bit processors. It also doesn't
support ATL and MFC.
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/hs24szh9.aspx

When I tried it with a small C program, it gave me an error message
saying that the C compiler section was missing. No processor selected.
But it's hard to tell if its instructions had problems and some other
method might find the C compiler.
The free trial version I found WAS the Express version.
Are you saying that some other 2010 Express version has a usable C
compiler? If so, which one?

I don't know which one you downloaded. I used the we install here
http://www.microsoft.com/visualstudio/en-us/products/2010-editions/visual-cpp-express

I don't know if they've changed it. I did it last August and used it
to build a C-language Windows DLL converted from VC6 without problems.
I know of several GPL projects that are built with VC Express.

h***@h-gee.co.uk

2011-12-23 17:40:16 UTC

Post by Isis
<snip>

Post by Cindy Ross
I would like to see Agent go open source. (Speaking as a professional
C++ developer who would love to work on an open source Agent...)

While you're waiting, why not fix Powerpost? It's driving me crazy.

How is PP broken?

What version are you using?

I have no trouble at all using the GB version - if you need it I'll post it.

Steve

Post by Isis
(I'd do it myself if I could compile the .cpp's.)
Isis
"Often imitated, but never duplicated" <http://tiny.cc/Isis55423/

Sir Hugh of Bognor
--
I used to be an Egotistical Megalomaniac - but now I'm just perfect!

Hugh Gundersen
***@h-gee.co.uk

Get AVG Internet Protection
AVG Reseller <***@bognor-bill.com>
discounted software - renewals and upgrades

Bognor Regis, W.Sussex, England, UK

Isis

2011-12-23 22:36:48 UTC

<snip>

Post by h***@h-gee.co.uk

Post by Isis
While you're waiting, why not fix Powerpost? It's driving me crazy.

How is PP broken?
What version are you using?
I have no trouble at all using the GB version - if you need it I'll post it.
Steve

Thanks for the offer, Steve, but GB-12 beta 7 is broken, too. (As are all of them.)

GB-12 is out-of-date to boot.

You can find the latest version here: <http://powerpost.camelsystem.nl/e-index.php

Here is one of the problems with all of them:

In ProgramSettings.cpp note the casual 12345 in MaxLines_UPPER_BOUND.

That has been there forever, even though the Max Lines setting itself has been
raised to 32000. (That's in another source file, so they always miss this.)
===============================================================================
BOOL CProgramSettings::LoadFromRegistry()
{
CWinApp* pApp = AfxGetApp();
CString S;
char szKey[32];
int k, nSize;

int nDefault_BWCap = 0;
#define MaxLines_UPPER_BOUND 12345
int nDefault_MaxLines = 3000;
===============================================================================
There are other things I would change, but this is the most irritating.

Isis

"Often imitated, but never duplicated" <http://tiny.cc/Isis55423/

Robert Miles

2011-12-30 06:10:00 UTC

Post by Isis
<snip>

Post by Cindy Ross
I would like to see Agent go open source. (Speaking as a professional
C++ developer who would love to work on an open source Agent...)

While you're waiting, why not fix Powerpost? It's driving me crazy.
(I'd do it myself if I could compile the .cpp's.)
Isis
"Often imitated, but never duplicated"<http://tiny.cc/Isis55423/

Do you have the source code, and which operating system do you want
it compiled for?

Robert Miles

Geoff

2011-12-30 07:11:17 UTC

On Fri, 30 Dec 2011 00:10:00 -0600, Robert Miles

Post by Isis
<snip>

Post by Cindy Ross
I would like to see Agent go open source. (Speaking as a professional
C++ developer who would love to work on an open source Agent...)

While you're waiting, why not fix Powerpost? It's driving me crazy.
(I'd do it myself if I could compile the .cpp's.)
Isis
"Often imitated, but never duplicated"<http://tiny.cc/Isis55423/

Do you have the source code, and which operating system do you want
it compiled for?

There appear to be at least two open source versions but this is the
only one that had the actual sources available on a quick and shallow
check of SourceForge.

http://powerpost.sourceforge.net/ Power Post 2004

Isis

2011-12-30 11:25:07 UTC

Post by Geoff
On Fri, 30 Dec 2011 00:10:00 -0600, Robert Miles

Post by Isis
<snip>

Post by Cindy Ross
I would like to see Agent go open source. (Speaking as a professional
C++ developer who would love to work on an open source Agent...)

While you're waiting, why not fix Powerpost? It's driving me crazy.
(I'd do it myself if I could compile the .cpp's.)
Isis
"Often imitated, but never duplicated"<http://tiny.cc/Isis55423/

Do you have the source code, and which operating system do you want
it compiled for?

Heaven's, NO! ;)

"Often imitated, but never duplicated" <http://tiny.cc/Isis55423/

Isis

2011-12-30 11:37:41 UTC

Post by Geoff
On Fri, 30 Dec 2011 00:10:00 -0600, Robert Miles

Post by Isis
<snip>

Post by Cindy Ross
I would like to see Agent go open source. (Speaking as a professional
C++ developer who would love to work on an open source Agent...)

While you're waiting, why not fix Powerpost? It's driving me crazy.
(I'd do it myself if I could compile the .cpp's.)
Isis
"Often imitated, but never duplicated"<http://tiny.cc/Isis55423/

Do you have the source code, and which operating system do you want
it compiled for?

In 2004 they were still trying to get yEnc to function correctly.

There was PP 2K, 2a, 2b, 2c, jw Edition c, A&A 11b, GB-12...

Those are all history.

Here is the current link:

<http://powerpost.camelsystem.nl/e-downloads.php

Isis

"Often imitated, but never duplicated" <http://tiny.cc/Isis55423/

Geoff

2011-12-30 12:25:56 UTC

Post by Isis
In 2004 they were still trying to get yEnc to function correctly.
There was PP 2K, 2a, 2b, 2c, jw Edition c, A&A 11b, GB-12...
Those are all history.
<http://powerpost.camelsystem.nl/e-downloads.php

You're in luck. That project is a VC6 project. If you can get your
hands on VS 6.0 you can build and fix it yourself. :)

Isis

2011-12-30 12:41:25 UTC

You're in luck. That project is a VC6 project. If you can get your
hands on VS 6.0 you can build and fix it yourself. :)

Even the used ones are $300+.

If you mean downloading a cracked version from Usenet, why stop at VS 6?

I mean, Boots-Man can be trusted, and he's got the full blown VS 10.

(A nice ISO you can mount on your virtual drive.)

Isis

"Often imitated, but never duplicated" <http://tiny.cc/Isis55423/

Geoff

2011-12-30 13:19:56 UTC

You're in luck. That project is a VC6 project. If you can get your
hands on VS 6.0 you can build and fix it yourself. :)

Even the used ones are $300+.
If you mean downloading a cracked version from Usenet, why stop at VS 6?
I mean, Boots-Man can be trusted, and he's got the full blown VS 10.
(A nice ISO you can mount on your virtual drive.)

The changes in C++ since VS6 make it hard to convert. I'm toying with
the project now in VS2010 Pro and there are several errors preventing
a successful build. MS was giving VS6 away for a long time. It
disappeared from their site when VS2005, etc. appeared. There must
still be some sources out there for it. It would be far easier to get
the VS6, patch the fixes you want and post the fixes to camelsystem
and be done. :) Let them fret over VS2010.

Isis

2011-12-30 13:59:24 UTC

Post by Geoff
The changes in C++ since VS6 make it hard to convert. I'm toying with
the project now in VS2010 Pro and there are several errors preventing
a successful build. MS was giving VS6 away for a long time. It
disappeared from their site when VS2005, etc. appeared. There must
still be some sources out there for it. It would be far easier to get
the VS6, patch the fixes you want and post the fixes to camelsystem
and be done. :) Let them fret over VS2010.
Visual Basic 6.0 is supported on Vista, but Visual Studio 6 is not.
One reason is that it includes the Microsoft Java Virtual Machine which
Microsoft promised Sun it would withdraw. This is the stated reason why
Visual Studio 6.0 is no longer available for download,
even for MSDN Universal subscribers.

I have already posted my concerns to the Powerpost forum. Whether they do anything
about it in their next release is anyone's guess. I expect that they will fix the
bug, but whether they will expand the article size parameters remains to be seen.

Thanks for all of your input. As far as compiling their existing source code, I've
always wondered if they might leave a few syntax errors in it to stop people like me
from messing with their product. I would have no problem playing around with GB-12,
because any product that remains in beta 7 for years has obviously been abandoned.

So I guess it will be a holding pattern for awhile to see if anything materializes.

Thanks again,

Isis

"Often imitated, but never duplicated" <http://tiny.cc/Isis55423/

Geoff

2011-12-30 18:47:14 UTC

Interesting. I know VS6 simply refuses to install on Win7. I didn't
know that was the reason.

Post by Isis
I have already posted my concerns to the Powerpost forum. Whether they do anything
about it in their next release is anyone's guess. I expect that they will fix the
bug, but whether they will expand the article size parameters remains to be seen.
Thanks for all of your input. As far as compiling their existing source code, I've
always wondered if they might leave a few syntax errors in it to stop people like me
from messing with their product. I would have no problem playing around with GB-12,
because any product that remains in beta 7 for years has obviously been abandoned.

I got it to compile in Win7 on VS2010 with a few tweaks of the project
and changing the prototype and definition of CM_WriteCStringToFile
from:

BOOL CM_WriteCStringToFile(CFile& theFile, CString& theString);
to:
BOOL CM_WriteCStringToFile(CFile& theFile, const CString& theString);

There was also an error in the message map handlers for the main
frame. I got around that for the time being by hacking out the two
offending lines regarding WM_ICONNOTIFY and WM_SENDTO_TRAY:

BEGIN_MESSAGE_MAP(CMainFrame, CFrameWnd)
//{{AFX_MSG_MAP(CMainFrame)
ON_WM_CREATE()
ON_WM_CLOSE()
//}}AFX_MSG_MAP
ON_WM_SYSCOMMAND()
// ON_MESSAGE(WM_ICONNOTIFY, OnIconNotification)
// ON_MESSAGE(WM_SENDTO_TRAY, OnSendToTray)
END_MESSAGE_MAP()

Something to look at in more detail later.

I got a good debug run and it opens the window and all items I tried
seem to function correctly. Fixing these messages is beyond me at the
moment since I am engaged in some higher priority home duties at the
moment and only spent an hour or two on this one.

The program also leaks 8 bytes on close, just by starting the program
and closing it without doing anything else.

Lots of unsurprising C4996 warnings, even with _CRT_SECURE_NO_WARNINGS
set. Deprecated POSIX function calls need to be rewritten.

Still tweaking the project settings for debug and release modes, no
attempt at compiling for x86_64.

All in all, not a hard hack yet.

Ralph Fox

2011-12-30 19:46:01 UTC

Post by Geoff
Interesting. I know VS6 simply refuses to install on Win7. I didn't
know that was the reason.

IME: VS6 installs on Win7; but the service packs for VS6 do not.

--
Kind regards
Ralph

Geoff

2011-12-30 20:15:39 UTC

Post by Geoff
Interesting. I know VS6 simply refuses to install on Win7. I didn't
know that was the reason.

IME: VS6 installs on Win7; but the service packs for VS6 do not.

I had to install it on the Windows Virtual PC, I'm on Win7/64 Pro and
it simply refused to install there.

Stephen Wolstenholme

2011-12-30 14:10:37 UTC

You're in luck. That project is a VC6 project. If you can get your
hands on VS 6.0 you can build and fix it yourself. :)

Even the used ones are $300+.
If you mean downloading a cracked version from Usenet, why stop at VS 6?
I mean, Boots-Man can be trusted, and he's got the full blown VS 10.
(A nice ISO you can mount on your virtual drive.)

I think I have every VS since the beginning of time! I've always found
that converting from one version build to the next needs a lot of
work. I have even done full rewrites instead of spending weeks trying
to fix compile and build problems.

Steve

Geoff

2011-12-30 18:15:44 UTC

On Fri, 30 Dec 2011 14:10:37 +0000, Stephen Wolstenholme

Post by Stephen Wolstenholme
I think I have every VS since the beginning of time! I've always found
that converting from one version build to the next needs a lot of
work. I have even done full rewrites instead of spending weeks trying
to fix compile and build problems.

I dropped my MSDN subscription when the marketing weenies created such
a mess with their names I couldn't discern which product I was
subscribing. I had Universal originally, and yes I had CDs and CD
books stacked to the ceiling in my office. I have a "master" book with
all the OS and SDKs and the silver Win2000 CD in it with the last VS6
release. I think my last update was 2008 or 2009. :)

I popped for VS2010 out of necessity and it's a lot better at
converting from VS6 than VS2005 or 2008 were.

Isis

2011-12-30 11:29:56 UTC

Post by Isis
<snip>

Post by Cindy Ross
I would like to see Agent go open source. (Speaking as a professional
C++ developer who would love to work on an open source Agent...)

While you're waiting, why not fix Powerpost? It's driving me crazy.
(I'd do it myself if I could compile the .cpp's.)
Isis
"Often imitated, but never duplicated"<http://tiny.cc/Isis55423/

Do you have the source code, and which operating system do you want
it compiled for?
Robert Miles

Yes, I have it, but I don't want it to escape into the wild. This was to be an 'X'
version of PP for my own use until they fix the real one. (I was also going to
expand its parameters a bit so I could use it for testing purposes.

Isis

"Often imitated, but never duplicated" <http://tiny.cc/Isis55423/

Stephen Wolstenholme

2011-12-23 17:23:56 UTC

Post by c***@email.com
Just thinking for the future - if Forte is no longer developing Agent, what are good
alternative newsreaders/email programs in case a switch is needed.

I hope that day never comes.

I would like to see a group of coders from
this group organize and develop Thunderbird's
newsreader.

I would like to see Agent go open source. (Speaking as a professional
C++ developer who would love to work on an open source Agent...)

Why would Forte make Agent open source as it probably still makes
money?

Steve

--
Neural network software applications, help and support.

Neural Network Software. www.npsl1.com
EasyNN-plus. Neural Networks plus. www.easynn.com
SwingNN. Forecast with Neural Networks. www.swingnn.com
JustNN. Just Neural Networks. www.justnn.com

Marc Wilson

2011-12-23 18:19:11 UTC

Post by c***@email.com
Just thinking for the future - if Forte is no longer developing Agent, what are good
alternative newsreaders/email programs in case a switch is needed.

I hope that day never comes.

I would like to see a group of coders from
this group organize and develop Thunderbird's
newsreader.

I would like to see Agent go open source. (Speaking as a professional
C++ developer who would love to work on an open source Agent...)

Why would Forte make Agent open source as it probably still makes
money?

open-source != free

--
Marc

Politics is the art of preventing people from sticking their noses in things that are properly their business. - Paul Valery

Jack

2011-12-23 20:56:59 UTC

Post by Stephen Wolstenholme
Why would Forte make Agent open source as it probably still makes
money?

open-source != free

open source != free as in beer
open source == free as in speech

When Agent becomes open source and free as in speech, I will be able to
undercut Forte's prices and sell Agent at �0.99 or less. Our overheads
are low because we do no development ourselves (apart from replacing
registration key verifiers).

--
Jack
Haggerston Cheap Genuine Software
Fully functional genuine legal software at cheaper than the manufacturer's prices.
E&OE

Marc Wilson

2011-12-24 02:25:27 UTC

In alt.usenet.offline-reader.forte-agent, (Jack) wrote in

Post by Jack

Post by Stephen Wolstenholme
Why would Forte make Agent open source as it probably still makes
money?

open-source != free

open source != free as in beer
open source == free as in speech
When Agent becomes open source and free as in speech, I will be able to
undercut Forte's prices and sell Agent at £0.99 or less. Our overheads
are low because we do no development ourselves (apart from replacing
registration key verifiers).

That's *one* model. But there are open-source licensing models that
only permit personal use or non-commercial releases.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_free_software_licenses

--
Marc

It takes ten pounds of common sense to carry one pound of learning. - Persian proverb

Stephen Wolstenholme

2011-12-24 17:06:29 UTC

Post by c***@email.com
Just thinking for the future - if Forte is no longer developing Agent, what are good
alternative newsreaders/email programs in case a switch is needed.

I hope that day never comes.

I would like to see a group of coders from
this group organize and develop Thunderbird's
newsreader.

I would like to see Agent go open source. (Speaking as a professional
C++ developer who would love to work on an open source Agent...)

Why would Forte make Agent open source as it probably still makes
money?

open-source != free

Open-source usually becomes free. In my experience the release of
source code for others to develop my JUSTNN resulted in a free
application that competed so I had to make it all free.

The solution was to produce another better application and no open
source code.

Steve

Cindy Ross

2011-12-23 21:47:56 UTC

Post by Stephen Wolstenholme
Why would Forte make Agent open source as it probably still makes
money?

I cannot argue with that. And there may be some barriers to making it
open source (for example if they used code developed by someone else in
a partnership they may not have rights to make it open source even if
they wanted to). It's a wish, cannot say if it's a *realistic* wish.

Arno Martens

2011-12-25 16:28:39 UTC

Post by c***@email.com
Just thinking for the future - if Forte is no longer developing Agent, what are good
alternative newsreaders/email programs in case a switch is needed.

I hope that day never comes.

I would like to see a group of coders from
this group organize and develop Thunderbird's
newsreader.

I would like to see Agent go open source. (Speaking as a professional
C++ developer who would love to work on an open source Agent...)

Why would Forte make Agent open source as it probably still makes
money?
Steve

Agreed, I think there are a fair amount of we APN subscribers,
generating cash for Forte.

--
Cheers,
Arno

Cindy Ross

2011-12-27 22:50:00 UTC

Post by Stephen Wolstenholme
Why would Forte make Agent open source as it probably still makes
money?
Steve

Agreed, I think there are a fair amount of we APN subscribers,
generating cash for Forte.

I tend to think of APN and Agent as separate things, that happen to
belong to the same company and benefit from mutual cross-promotion.
How about an open source license that says that Agent must always have a
copyright license pointing to Forte so they still get that promotion???
But of course that says nothing about the revenue they receive from
Agent licenses...

It's just a wish; this is the right season for wishes, right? :-)
The bottom line is that of course I cannot say if it would ever
realistically happen, probably not.

(By the way, one reason that I chimed in with my wish was that I have
heard it said in other threads in the past that there isn't really any
need for an open source Agent, as there would be no developers to create
enhancements for it, if one assumes that that any potential developers
are likely already tied up working on existing open source newsreaders.
But I don't think that's necessarily the case.)

Ralph Fox

2011-12-30 09:16:31 UTC

Post by Cindy Ross
It's just a wish; this is the right season for wishes, right? :-)
The bottom line is that of course I cannot say if it would ever
realistically happen, probably not.
(By the way, one reason that I chimed in with my wish was that I have
heard it said in other threads in the past that there isn't really any
need for an open source Agent, as there would be no developers to create
enhancements for it, if one assumes that that any potential developers
are likely already tied up working on existing open source newsreaders.
But I don't think that's necessarily the case.)

Regarding those potential developers who are not tied up on existing
projects. Let's put them into two categories:

A. Those who want to enhance Agent.

B. Those who are just curious how Mark implemented things.

IMO in the 50+ months since Agent development has slowed, if there
were enough potential developers in category 'A' then they could
have already forked Pan, made it into a functional clone of Agent,
and be enhancing it.

--
Kind regards
Ralph

Cindy Ross

2011-12-30 22:29:48 UTC

Regarding those potential developers who are not tied up on existing
A. Those who want to enhance Agent.
B. Those who are just curious how Mark implemented things.
IMO in the 50+ months since Agent development has slowed, if there
were enough potential developers in category 'A' then they could
have already forked Pan, made it into a functional clone of Agent,
and be enhancing it.

Okay. I guess I'm just unusual then. Personally, I would be more
motivated if the code already had everything Agent does and could just
get started on cool enhancements to it, rathern than to be starting with
adding features already in Agent into Pan.

But looking at the screenshots on Pan's web site, I sure do see a lot of
obvious similarities, so maybe there's not as much missing as I would
have guessed. I'll have to look closer at it some time...

Ralph Fox

2012-01-01 03:12:51 UTC

Post by Cindy Ross
Okay. I guess I'm just unusual then. Personally, I would be more
motivated if the code already had everything Agent does and could just
get started on cool enhancements to it, rathern than to be starting with
adding features already in Agent into Pan.

I would want to look at both sets of code, and work out how
much code refactoring would be needed for each set before I
could start adding those cool features.

Post by Cindy Ross
But looking at the screenshots on Pan's web site, I sure do see a lot of
obvious similarities, so maybe there's not as much missing as I would
have guessed. I'll have to look closer at it some time...

I heard that Pan was intended to be functionally similar to Agent.

As to how Pan and Agent compare in internal design, I don't know.
That is the kind of thing which could make some "cool enhancement"
take either a week or half a year.

--
Kind regards
Ralph

Ralph Fox

2011-12-26 00:22:01 UTC

Post by Randy
I would like to see a group of coders from
this group organize and develop Thunderbird's
newsreader.

If you yourself want to contribute to Thunderbird's newsreader
but you are not a coder, then you can always assist on
Thunderbird's help system and knowledgebase documentation.

http://support.mozillamessaging.com/en-US/kb/superheroes-wanted

-----====oooOooo====-----

All the best for the New Year.
༄༅།།ལོ་གསར་ལ་བཀྲ་ཤིས་བདེ་ལེགས་ཞུ།
С Новым Годом
新年おめでとうございます
გილოცავთ ახალ წელს
Ngā mihi o te tau hou

--
Ralph

Randy

2011-12-26 09:29:45 UTC

Post by Randy
I would like to see a group of coders from
this group organize and develop Thunderbird's
newsreader.

Cool. Thanks.

--
Forte Agent: 6.0/32.1186; Windows: 5.1
(Build 2600.xpsp_sp3_qfe.101209-1646 : Service
Pack 3)

Robert Miles

2011-12-30 06:06:25 UTC

Post by c***@email.com

Post by c***@email.com
Just thinking for the future - if Forte is no longer developing

Agent, what are good

Post by c***@email.com
alternative newsreaders/email programs in case a switch is needed.

I hope that day never comes.

I would like to see a group of coders from this group organize and
develop Thunderbird's newsreader.

I've already been thinking of that, but have not yet gone far
enough to tell if I would need to learn at least one more
computer language first.

Robert Miles

Randy

2011-12-30 10:35:12 UTC

Fri, 30 Dec 2011 00:06:25 -0600, in article

... I would like to see a group of coders from this group organize and
develop Thunderbird's newsreader.

I've already been thinking of that, but have not yet gone far
enough to tell if I would need to learn at least one more
computer language first.

http://mzl.la/udKw1f

--
Forte Agent: 6.0/32.1186; Windows: 5.1
(Build 2600.xpsp_sp3_qfe.101209-1646 : Service Pack 3)

Ralph Fox

2011-12-30 19:34:31 UTC

Post by Randy
Fri, 30 Dec 2011 00:06:25 -0600, in article

... I would like to see a group of coders from this group organize and
develop Thunderbird's newsreader.

I've already been thinking of that, but have not yet gone far
enough to tell if I would need to learn at least one more
computer language first.

http://mzl.la/udKw1f

For developing TB, one would also want to learn XUL and JavaScript.

http://tinyurl.com/ydnly96

--
Kind regards
Ralph

Robert Miles

2011-12-31 01:40:31 UTC

Post by Randy
Fri, 30 Dec 2011 00:06:25 -0600, in article

... I would like to see a group of coders from this group organize and
develop Thunderbird's newsreader.

I've already been thinking of that, but have not yet gone far
enough to tell if I would need to learn at least one more
computer language first.

http://mzl.la/udKw1f

For developing TB, one would also want to learn XUL and JavaScript.
http://tinyurl.com/ydnly96

Two computer languages I've never worked with before.

Robert Miles

Robert Miles

2011-12-31 01:34:17 UTC

Post by Randy
Fri, 30 Dec 2011 00:06:25 -0600, in article

... I would like to see a group of coders from this group organize and
develop Thunderbird's newsreader.

I've already been thinking of that, but have not yet gone far
enough to tell if I would need to learn at least one more
computer language first.

http://mzl.la/udKw1f

Looks like I'll Have to download the software to see if
I need to learn any more computer languages first, then.
I've never used python before.

Working under 64-bit Windows Vista and Windows 7 only.

Randy

2011-12-26 23:01:19 UTC

Thu, 22 Dec 2011 12:41:30 -0500, in article

Post by Wayne Garmil
I don't know of any other newsreader that has Agent's multi-server
support where more than one newsserver can feed into the same
newsgroup folder, all the others I have seen maintain separate folders
for each server. Pan is supposed to support this, but from I seen it
only populates the group from the first server it finds that contains
the group (not from every server configured like Agent can do).
Caveat: this could be my error in how I have Pan configured.

I just tried Pan.

First, I had to install the GTK Runtime Library,
then a Windows installer. Then I had to copy an
updated zlib1.dll file from the GTK runtime
library to the Pan directory, because the one in
the Pan library was outdated.

After all that, if Pan allows you to specify the
line length in your composition, I haven't been
able to find it.

Another problem I encountered is that it double
posts my signature every time, no matter how I set
up the profile and signature options. Not sure
what the deal is with that.

Pan also doesn't seem to allow you to edit your
posting identity from the composition window on
the fly. You have to select a pre-made identity
from a drop down menu.

All in all, I don't see any major benefit to using
Pan for posting to text newsgroups, and almost
immediately encountered problems that make me
never want to use it again.

--
Forte Agent: 6.0/32.1186; Windows: 5.1
(Build 2600.xpsp_sp3_qfe.101209-1646 : Service Pack 3)

Robert Miles

2011-12-30 05:13:34 UTC